D&D 5E Reasons Why My Interest in 5e is Waning

[Shasarak]

Even if Magic went and most FLGS stores shut down, the hobby would still continue on with Pathfinder leading the way. They aren't dependant on shops because they have taken advantage of the Internet. People would then rely on more home games, which more than likely makes up the majority anyway, and playing online. I think would see loads of online gaming programs pop up. I believe the hobby would become a lot more modern than it ever has.

I agree. When I started I did not have a game shop or even the internet - although I did have monthly Dragon magazines which were fantastic.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I think the reason Paizo doesn't really care so much about the FLGS, is because most of its fandom is made up of current gamers. I have no idea how many new gamers Pathfinder has brought into the hobby, but, considering efforts like WOTC's Adventurers League, I'd say it's a lot less than what WOTC has done. I think Paizo has essentially cannibalized the 3e gamer fandom.

The whole point of Pathfinder is that it's a continuation of 3.5: not just a chance to keep playing 3.5 (which could anyway), but a chance to buy validation of your loyalty to 3.5 by wallet-voting for your 'team.' It's a successful business model for Paizo, in part because they are relatively small and agile, able to keep feeding their fanbase what they need to feel validated, and able to do very well off that kind of volume, in part because they walked away from their arrangement with WotC with a juicy mailing list of the game's most dedicated fans. All of which, yes, points to established fans as their audience.

However, the Pathfinder Society's zeal is not limited by business models, and they do make an extraordinary effort to get the game out there in organized play. They hit conventions, stores, trawl for new gamers in person and on-line. At least around here (SF bay area) they seem to put even more effort into it than the AL.

Even something like 5e is probably more beneficial for bringing new gamers to Pathfinder than, say, something like Pathfinder Society. People start out in the hobby with D&D. Then they move on to Pathfinder or whatever other game. But D&D is the gateway game.

D&D is very much a gateway to the hobby. Pathfinder is very much the same gateway. It's just a matter of whether you walk into a store where PFS is running a table or one where Encounters is happening that night. You say you want to try D&D, the Pathfinder guys will introduce you to the 'real' D&D, as readily as AL will to the official. Whether you start with 5e or Pathfinder, you're likely to have a very similar experience of and reaction to they hobby. (No Pathfinder DM is going to throw the whole universe of rules bloat at a new player, for instance.)

Take away D&D, and ten years, fifteen years down the road, simple attrition will sink most of the RPG companies out there.

D&D shows no sign of going away, and, even if Hasbro makes it go away, the d20 OGL is still there, and clones can take up the slack. When people go looking for D&D they'll hear 'oh, there's a Pathfinder/13A/whatever-a-5e-clone-might-be-called' game running at such-and-such store, between M:tG tournaments,' try it out, and probably hate it, but maybe not, maybe they'll be another new instant fan - and the hobby will limp along like always, tiny, but dedicated.

 

[Wicht]

The whole point of Pathfinder is that it's a continuation of 3.5, a chance to buy validation by wallet-voting for your 'team.' It's a successful business model for Paizo, in part because they are relatively small and agile, able to keep feeding their fanbase what they need to feel validated, and able to do very well off that kind of volume.

Wow. That's a lot of condescension and insult packed into a rather small package.

Here I thought I played Pathfinder because I liked it and the adventures that Paizo cranks out. Thank you for the enlightenment that what I have really been craving this whole time is validation.

Seriously, if this is your opinion of why Pathfinder is popular than you really might want to check your biases.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Here I thought I played Pathfinder because I liked it

I don't doubt that's why you play it. But, with the huge amount of material that was already out for 3.5, did you really need to buy everything Paizo put out for Pathfinder?

Do 49er's fans buy red T-shirts with numbers on them because they really like the material, and genuinely need some more T-shirts?

But, 'validation' aside, you must agree that the point of Pathfinder was to continue 3.5? I mean, it had "3.5 is back" right on the cover. I can't imagine that over a year of vicious edition warring, and a long participatory playtest, capped by that sort of image didn't build some esprit de corps.

 

[Kramodlog]

I don't doubt that's why you play it. But, with the huge amount of material that was already out for 3.5, did you really need to buy everything Paizo put out for Pathfinder?

With all the D&D stuff released over decades, did anyone need to buy 5e?

But, 'validation' aside, you must agree that the point of Pathfinder was to continue 3.5?

The point of Pathfinder was to make money for Paizo. Paizo couldn't produce the mags anymore and they had to find a new source revenues or bust.

I mean, it had "3.5 is back" right on the cover.

That is marketing. To appeal to people who still wanted to play 3.5/didn't like 4e.

I can't imagine that over a year of vicious edition warring, and a long participatory playtest, capped by that sort of image didn't build some esprit de corps.

WotC turning its back on its fans did that by itself.

 

[DEFCON 1]

WotC turning its back on its fans did that by itself.

Oh please. They didn't turn their backs on their fans... they produced an evolution of 3.5 that codified all the miniatures use that many groups were using into a rules system that emphasized and highlighted much of what players were already doing. It turned out not to be the evolution a good percentage wanted, but WotC didn't design and produce it to deliberately thumb their nose at 3.5 players. And if people took 4E as a personal affront, that's on them.

 

[Wicht]

I don't doubt that's why you play it.

Well, if you don't doubt it, then why not retract and apologize instead of doubling down...
As you do in the very next sentence...

But, with the huge amount of material that was already out for 3.5, did you really need to buy everything Paizo put out for Pathfinder?

And, since you asked... no... But I enjoy the material.
Which is why I was subscribed to their adventure path well before the Pathfinder rules were announced.
I am on record, in the very thread in which Paizo asked their customers which way they should go, saying that I would go where they went because I liked their adventures. And that was well before I knew for a fact that 4e was not the rules for me. So validation had nothing to do with it.

But, 'validation' aside, you must agree that the point of Pathfinder was to continue 3.5? I mean, it had "3.5 is back" right on the cover. I can't imagine that over a year of vicious edition warring, and a long participatory playtest, capped by that sort of image didn't build some esprit de corps.

Perhaps you should, as I suggested before, check your own biases before casting aspersions. You may be projecting more than you realize. I do believe that Paizo is on record as saying they wanted to continue telling the type of stories they enjoyed telling and that their customers enjoyed buying and that they could do that better with the 3e engine than the 4e. It has nothing to do with validation or "esprit de corps."

 

[pemerton]

I think gaming stores are incredibly important as an entry point to hobby gaming. (It's a view that Wizards has, and Paizo does not.)

However, there is a disconnect from "games need hobby stores" and "hobby stores need game" - the hobby stores need games that make money (and preferably, a lot of money. See Magic), while there are games that are far more dependent on hobby store visibility than others.

But if D&D disappeared from stores, would they still carry other RPG lines? I think that is [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION]'s question. I don't know the answer.

 

[pemerton]

WotC turning its back on its fans did that by itself.

You say this as if no fans of D&D enjoyed 4e.

For some fans of D&D - of which I'm one - 4e led to more purchases from WotC than anything else they might have published. "The fans" is not some monolithic horde that WotC betrayed!

 

[Gundan Shadeslinger]

But if D&D disappeared from stores, would they still carry other RPG lines? I think that is [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION]'s question. I don't know the answer.

Of course they would.