D&D 5E Reasons Why My Interest in 5e is Waning

[chriton227]

I would argue that now a days the Internet is the best way now.

I've played in and run several online games over the years, and in my opinion it makes for a very poor way to introduce people to the hobby. The new player can't borrow another player's book to look through, so if they want to read the rules themselves, look through the character options to get ideas, or even look at the artwork to get a better feel for the world, they would have to make the investment of buying the book themselves. It is harder for a more experienced player to help mentor the new player; explaining things to the player and helping to answer the new players questions would have to interrupt everyone on the main chat, take place on a separate chat channel, or be done in text, rather than just a quiet exchange that doesn't disrupt the game, and things like pointing out various things on the character sheet are much more time consuming than just pointing at the sheet in person. From an IC roleplaying perspective, you lose a lot of body language cues playing online, the chat system itself can introduce lag in the verbal exchanges, it becomes much harder to understand people if they start talking at the same time (which happens more frequently as the lag increases), and the audio compression used by the chat software can strip out some of the verbal inflections that make it easier to understand the tone and meaning of what is being said. And then you get the technical aspects of actually doing it; they have to find the site to connect with a group, work out the scheduling, figure out the software (even Roll20 had a decent learning curve, and something like MapTool can get extremely complex), make sure they have the hardware needed (not everyone already has a mic connected to their computer, and even then it can take some work to get the audio levels right so you are not too quiet or loud), and they have to consider whether their internet connection can support software they will need to use (20% of US households don't have broadband and dial-up may be too slow to effectively support both a VTT and voicechat, or an unstable connection could result in repeated disconnects).

All of this, compared to just showing up at the FLGS on the advertised day and time, where there are people with the books for you to look at and more experienced players to guide them.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I just can't get into PbP, not for me. Then again playing with strangers at the game store doesn't really entice me either. I'm not sure I'll be gaming much if my current 20+ year group fell apart.

 

[Doctor Futurity]

I just read the first page and OP then skipped to the end, sorry. On the OP, except for item 3 it's almost like it's 1990 all over again. Woot!

But that said....while all of those are things we would like and need, I am in the "this still doesn't affect my absolute enjoyment of the game" camp. I'll be running D&D 5E until the cows come home, it looks like. The only risk they have right now is if Pathfinder miraculously produces a 2nd edition that is mechanically competitive with D&D 5E's style.

 

[Sailor Moon]

Really? How exactly?

How would you introduce a new person to gaming using only the Internet?

I think the reason Paizo doesn't really care so much about the FLGS, is because most of its fandom is made up of current gamers. I have no idea how many new gamers Pathfinder has brought into the hobby, but, considering efforts like WOTC's Adventurers League, I'd say it's a lot less than what WOTC has done. I think Paizo has essentially cannibalized the 3e gamer fandom. Even something like 5e is probably more beneficial for bringing new gamers to Pathfinder than, say, something like Pathfinder Society. People start out in the hobby with D&D. Then they move on to Pathfinder or whatever other game. But D&D is the gateway game.

Take away D&D, and ten years, fifteen years down the road, simple attrition will sink most of the RPG companies out there.

Now a days almost everyone is online. I would argue that people would make way online faster than they would a store. Since Dungeons & Dragons is so well known anyone could look it up online, order the books cheaper online, find people via Facebook, find someplace to play, and there we go. The only advantage a store has is providing somewhere to play of no place else is available.

 

[Greg K]

I just can't get into PbP, not for me. Then again playing with strangers at the game store doesn't really entice me either.

Same here. Then again, I can't work up the interest to run for friends over Roll20 or something similar. For myself, the game needs to be in person.

 

[sunshadow21]

The store is the easy starting point. I think WotC sees direct value in having the stores continue to exist, and are going out of their way to lead people to using physical product in store instead of offering an easy digital alternative.

I think Paizo sees the value as well, given their support of PFS. The difference is that they are relying less on the presence of physical product in the stores and more on active players routinely using the stores as a meeting place. In the end, I think that is a more viable solution than just relying on books on a shelf. It allows Paizo to leverage the digital alternatives without minimizing the importance of the stores to the hobby.

 

[bmfrosty]

I think Paizo sees the value as well, given their support of PFS. The difference is that they are relying less on the presence of physical product in the stores and more on active players routinely using the stores as a meeting place. In the end, I think that is a more viable solution than just relying on books on a shelf. It allows Paizo to leverage the digital alternatives without minimizing the importance of the stores to the hobby.

I think they may benefit from people not bothering to cancel subscriptions and people with hoarder mentalities. My wife has a couple of magazine subscriptions that just keep renewing and she wants to get around to reading them so she keeps them, but she never reads them and she never cancels. I'm sure I've done the same in a few places too over the years.

 

[sunshadow21]

People start out in the hobby with D&D. Then they move on to Pathfinder or whatever other game. But D&D is the gateway game.

Take away D&D, and ten years, fifteen years down the road, simple attrition will sink most of the RPG companies out there.

That used to be the case, but Paizo has really stepped up and is already changing that, though a full change will take a bit more time. At least for the direct hobby, D&D isn't actually as important as it used to be. Stores rely on Pathfinder sales as much as they do 5E (or 4E when it was out). Increasingly, even when people start playing, even if they still call it D&D, it's actually Pathfinder, and it's Paizo (or some other indy company), not WotC, that is getting the money and the fans and the support.

The hobby will not die just because D&D is no longer the lead rpg. If it was going to die, it would have done so after the almost complete collapse of 4E. Instead, what we got was a period of transition that is already showing signs of recovering after the initial loss. Aside from Paizo, there are several companies viable enough to sustain the hobby as it works through the current challenges without any of them truly needing WotC. 5E, for all that it is helpful, has less of an impact on the rpg industry than any of it's predecessors. The limited release of materials is going to ensure that it's not going to have the long term benefits of a known brand name, and that most of any actual income made by it being on the shelf is just as likely to go to someone other than WotC. The fact that so few people make the distinction between D&D and rpgs may in the end help WotC in other markets, but it hurts them in the rpg market when others are putting out more material than they are. People will often start playing "D&D" not caring about what precise company they are supporting until they are already invested in that game, which is very likely not going to be the actual D&D game, at which point, they will be perfectly willing to do what a lot of existing gamers do, which is give their money to someone else while still using the D&D name in a way that doesn't particularly benefit WotC.

 

[sunshadow21]

I think they may benefit from people not bothering to cancel subscriptions and people with hoarder mentalities. My wife has a couple of magazine subscriptions that just keep renewing and she wants to get around to reading them so she keeps them, but she never reads them and she never cancels. I'm sure I've done the same in a few places too over the years.

WotC benefited from similar mentalities during 3E as well, so it's not like Paizo is the only company to ever take advantage of that aspect.

The bigger point is that Paizo does have a working relationship with the physical stores, even if it doesn't have the buddy buddy relationship that WotC has. It's not like Paizo doesn't value that point of entry; they just use it a bit differently than WotC does. In turn, WotC has virtually zero digital and internet presence, where Paizo has a considerable presence there as well, allowing them to take full advantage of that point of entry as well. By not relying on just one distribution method, they enhance their ability to reach new players. WotC, for all that physical stores are still an important part of the equation, is completely missing out on the digital alternative, which is becoming just as important, and is threatening to replace the physical stores entirely; they have a decent plan for the present, but no real clear path to adapt for present and future trends that aren't part of their current strategy.

 

[BryonD]

And what would that single point be?

Essentials and 3.5 came into existence in the ballpark of the same amount of time after the initial edition release.

This, to you, means it weighs the same as a duck and is therefore a witch.
Or that they both had the same motivation.
One or the other.

And, dude, bitterness? What?

Call it sour grapes. Whatever.