The Elder Scrolls RPG

[Janx]

The big problem I had with ES (and I really liked ES4 and 5) is that the stories don't matter. There's no pressing need to do anything. That girl will remain happily kidnapped and safe until I go rescue her. They are feeding her milk and cookies right now, but they'll tie her back up when I get there.

I never started the main quest in Skyrim. Just didn't feel like supporting the racist guy, and I'd already killed the Emperor. Didn't seem like there was any point.

Seems like that might be an aspect not to emulate in a tabletop RPG. Namely, by starting some kind of clock once the PC hears of a quest (and don't slam the PC with all the quests right away). Pitch him a few, and if he ignores some, let them expire in failure before you pitch him some more.

I don't think you need a new RPG for this. ES basically was a new ruleset on every version.

 

[GMMichael]

Armor and weapons that degrade over time and need to be repaired.

In my opinion, the real signature of the Elder Scrolls series has been the open world rather than being heavily railroaded. I think that's pretty easy to pull off in a tabletop game as long as you have some minimal prep work done for all the locations available for the PCs to explore (you can always expand on the fly). The hard part is that if you're playing a level-based game, you need a lot of possible quests for the party to take on at any time and any level.

Degrading arms ended in Skyrim. Not sure if they were present in earlier iterations.

Not sure if we should include "open world" or not. While it's a big feature of the video games, is it really necessary to make your RPG feel like Elder Scrolls? (I'm thinking yes now...)

In Skyrim, didnt you choose what zodiac sign you were born under as well?

ESO has the abilities for Skills to "morph" at certain levels. So my lightning attack gets up to a certain level, then I can choose a permanent augment for it, which costs a skill point ( more range vs and extra effect ). You also have passive perks open up that you can spend your skill points on: same power tree (Stormcalling), a passive might be that I get a +5% Magica recovery, or do +3% more damage with any spells out of the tree.

In Skyrim, you choose a standing stone to touch. It grants you a removable boon. I think Oblivion had the zodiac signs, which granted a permanent boon.

The "skills" in ESO don't really seem to be skills (to the uneducated). They look more like class powers. As they progress, they get more powerful, or do different things. And since they seem pretty unique to ESO, I wouldn't call them part of the broad Elder Scrolls experience. Would you?

The big problem I had with ES (and I really liked ES4 and 5) is that the stories don't matter. There's no pressing need to do anything.

I don't think you need a new RPG for this. ES basically was a new ruleset on every version.

The stories matter! They just wait on you. I suppose the designers went this route because once a quest ends, it's permanently over. So you could miss half of the game by deciding to run side quests, or going hunting. Or being a merchant. Or...

I don't think we need a new RPG either. I know which one I'll be using! But this thread is about how anyone can make their game more Elder Scrolls-like, if he so chooses.

So some of the current ideas:

• Open world - probably requires more random tables than oodles of planning,
• Scaling enemies - easy, if you're playing the right game. Otherwise, you have some prep to do,
• Design own spells - still not striking me as a general feature,
• Persuasion Pie - unique to Oblivion? But see factions point...
• Degrading weapons - did these appear outside Oblivion?
• Rich Lore - see www.uesp.net
• Skills, magic, weapon and armor prof improvement - isn't this a common RPG thing?
• Classes - Elder Scrolls, except for Skyrim, has classes. Primarily fighter, wizard, rogue,
• Zodiac Sign/Standing Stone - any of these outside IV and V?
• Racial reputation/faction - recurring theme. There's a good amount of prejudice in Elder Scrolls,
• Guilds - these take different names, and are pretty streamlined in IV and V. But not so in III?

 

[Janx]

I don't think we need a new RPG either. I know which one I'll be using! But this thread is about how anyone can make their game more Elder Scrolls-like, if he so chooses.

So some of the current ideas:

• Open world - probably requires more random tables than oodles of planning,
• Scaling enemies - easy, if you're playing the right game. Otherwise, you have some prep to do,
• Design own spells - still not striking me as a general feature,
• Persuasion Pie - unique to Oblivion? But see factions point...
• Degrading weapons - did these appear outside Oblivion?
• Rich Lore - see www.uesp.net
• Skills, magic, weapon and armor prof improvement - isn't this a common RPG thing?
• Classes - Elder Scrolls, except for Skyrim, has classes. Primarily fighter, wizard, rogue,
• Zodiac Sign/Standing Stone - any of these outside IV and V?
• Racial reputation/faction - recurring theme. There's a good amount of prejudice in Elder Scrolls,
• Guilds - these take different names, and are pretty streamlined in IV and V. But not so in III?

I would just use the Wiki for your campaign guide
come up with in-game bonus for choosing a zodiac sign/standing stone
make guilds for just about every class trope (fighters, thieves, wizards)
map the RPG's races to the ones in ES.
scaling enemies is almost inherent. The game is next weekend. the party is 4th level. Choose enemies appropriate to challenge a 4th level party. Done.

After that, the challenge is evoking the feel of being in an Elder Scrolls world. Which is by NPCs and framing the setting with news and events that are about familiar things in Tamriel. So pay for things in Septims. Mention the emperor and his new initiative. Etc,

 

[GMMichael]

The above points are for discussion, by the way. I'm not writing (too much) in standing stone!

I would just use the Wiki for your campaign guide . . .
After that, the challenge is evoking the feel of being in an Elder Scrolls world. Which is by NPCs and framing the setting with news and events that are about familiar things in Tamriel. So pay for things in Septims. Mention the emperor and his new initiative. Etc,

Here, here. I guess the setting part seemed pretty obvious to me. But depending on what your RPG is, the game can feel more or less like an Elder Scrolls game. For example, a game like D&D that uses experience points will have an inherently Arena or ESO feel to it, since these games use experience points. But other Elder Scrolls titles use advancement by skills like, say, Call of Cthulhu. So choosing the right rules can go a long way toward promoting the right feel as well as setting.

Just thinking recently:

Elder Scrolls has a significant amount of health regeneration, at least in Oblivion and Skyrim. You could handle this directly with healing per round, or take a more abstract approach with a certain amount of healing between each encounter.

 

[GMMichael]

Skyrim II announced! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYsYHf0YdtA

Just kidding. But if you see anything official on Elder Scrolls 6, let us know so we can analyze what elements look consistent with the earlier games.

Any experts on the quest system(s)? It got an overhaul after Morrowwind, and the ESO system looks similar to Skyrim. What would that be like in a tabletop game? Maybe: whenever a character stumbles on a plotline that the GM has planned out, he gets a card with the quest name on it, and the next objective written underneath. What might also be nice on the card - the reward given for the previous objective, or the reward available for the next one.

 

[Mishihari Lord]

I only played Skyrim, so that's all I can really comment on. You have a pretty good list so far. I'd take out the scaling enemies with level bit - that's a video game feature more than a specific Skyrim feature and RPGs are better off without it. I'd also include
- crafting your own gear
- high-power criticals (I once killed a dragon in Skyrim with a single arrow shot from stealth, with appropriate skills maxed of course)
- skill improvement after specific number of successes with the skill
- wards as active magic protection
- active defense options in combat

 

[Wik]

Been playing Elder Scrolls since Morrowind, and there's a pretty good list of the major points. First, I think you NEED the sandboxy feel. I love playing Skyrim and just stumbling on some random dungeon or quest line, and going from there. It's just fun times.

I disagree with people saying that this is a hard thing to do in actual play - it's not. You just need to have a few general dungeons kicking around within a few levels of your PCs, and adjust as you see fit. To play this sort of game, you need to be able to wing it... which happens to be my favourite part of RPGs.

Having characters be able to enchant their own gear, smith their own weapons, build their own houses, and progress in their preferred guilds are all good, "elder scrolls" ideas. And all of these are pretty easy to do in both 5th and Pathfinder, so that's a plus.

I've noticed that players in any Elder Scrolls game tend to be generalists with a focus on one area. So, everyone can cast healing magic, but some might be conjurers and others might just use a huge axe. Whether you want to do that, or just use the D&D class system is up to you. Personally, I'd just go with classes.

I love using alchemy in Skyrim. Stealing that system, and having players try to figure out what to combine with what to make potions would be pretty cool. It's like a campaign-length puzzle you can throw at them. And doing similar things with other parts of the game - enchanting and disenchanting items, finding metals to smith your own gear, and the like - could help your game feel "skyrimmy".

Also, I'd keep your individual quests short and sweet. In an Elder Scrolls game, the over-arching plot is something you visit occasionally, but you'll spend most of the time accomplishing short quests that are easy-in, easy-out.

I'd also pick a smaller setting, such as one province of Tamriel, and really just flesh it out. Personally, I'd go with one that hasn't been explored much yet. Somerset Isles? Elsewyr? Both would be cool. Apparently Elder Scrolls 6 is going to be in Orsinium, the Orc Homeland, so I'd maybe avoid that.

Give each place a theme to it. For example, in Skyrim, all of the holds have a different vibe to them. Riften is a wooden Venice that's home to con artists and thieves. Winterhold is built on an icy cliff and has a bunch of decaying buildings and a frozen castle full of mages. There's the city of Solitude, a city of "civilization" in the north (it reminds me of Baldur's Gate). And then there's Morthal and Markarth, which I always get confused - one's a horror-vibe swamptown plagued by ghosts and vampires (with a young heir who seems to have epilepsy!), while the other is busily involved in an uprising from the local natives. If you can provide one "hook" to each settlement, you're well on your way to an Elder Scrolls game.

I mean, every time I play one, I wind up picking one place that I just tend to gravitate to. In Skyrim, I always try to hangout in Rorikstead whenever I get the chance, and Dragonsbridge is awesome.

I'd also make sure that you fill up your areas with awesome wandering monster lists, and have those lists trigger some special encounters that you prep ahead of time.

Finally, if I were you, I'd go on the wikis for Elder Scrolls, and liberally steal a bunch of quest lines from them, and convert as you see fit. That'd be an easy way to really capture the game's feel. Make sure you steal the pirate ship/inn encounter from Oblivion! I love that questline.

 

[GMMichael]

I see some really good points to address above - give me a day on those. Just wanted to mention:

- Solo quests. Elder Scrolls, until ESO, have been primarily one-player games, right? I think that it wasn't until Skyrim that you could get a dedicated follower pretty easily. It was possible in Oblivion, but the Knights of the Nine would die pretty quickly, and the Crazed Fan (whatever) wasn't much of a help!

Is this an essential part of the feel to maintain? Or can bigger groups overcome it?

 

[bone_naga]

I see some really good points to address above - give me a day on those. Just wanted to mention:

- Solo quests. Elder Scrolls, until ESO, have been primarily one-player games, right? I think that it wasn't until Skyrim that you could get a dedicated follower pretty easily. It was possible in Oblivion, but the Knights of the Nine would die pretty quickly, and the Crazed Fan (whatever) wasn't much of a help!

Is this an essential part of the feel to maintain? Or can bigger groups overcome it?

As with most single-player video games, Elder Scrolls has a plot that revolves heavily around the character. In my experience, trying to push that into a larger group can be disruptive, since really only one of them can be "the chosen one" or whatever. I've seen campaigns like that fall apart as the party gets divided.

However, there are often sidequests that have pretty epic plotlines. What I would do is have several equally important plotlines that each revolve around a different character. So one might be the chosen of the Dark Brotherhood, the next might be the Dragonborn, a third might be destined to become the new Sheogorath (I know I'm mixing games here, but it's just an example).

Also important would be making sure that no single plotline gets resolved all at once. So the party might do a quest for the dragonborn, then a quest in the Shivering Isles, then head over to the Knights of the Nine, then go back to the dragonborn plotline, etc. That gives each character time in the spotlight, while also maintaining the general style of Elder Scrolls quests.

 

[amerigoV]

I think that it wasn't until Skyrim that you could get a dedicated follower pretty easily. It was possible in Oblivion, but the Knights of the Nine would die pretty quickly, and the Crazed Fan (whatever) wasn't much of a help!

Probably just allow the PC to have a mule. That is what I pretty much used them for other than the free training. Maybe a talking mule with only one or two lines -

"Now that's impressive" ~Ghorbash Ironmule​

I guess that would not work in 4e....