D&D 5E How many fans want a 5E Warlord?

[pemerton]

Pretty sure she was still as wounded after the baby cried as she was before. The article doesn't state it, but I think it is very safe to say that her C-Section incision was not healed by the baby crying.

It is only a misrepresentation if the person plays the same way you do. If the person plays differently, and treats damage as wounds (Especially in situations where the only possible explanation is a wound) it is not a misrepresentation, it is exactly what is happening in-game.

The thing is, 5e already has provision for fairly rapid recovery of lost hit points - Second Wind, Hit Dice, resting/sleeping, etc. A major abdominal wound can't be healed by getting one's Second Wind, nor by resting. In fact, at mediaeval levels of technology it's barely treatable.

Hence it follows that, whatever hit point loss corresponds to in the fiction, it can't be the suffering of major abdominal wounds!

Are you asserting that it makes no sense that whatever can be overcome by resting, can also be overcome by trying harder once inspired? Because if that's what your asserting, then I'm curious as to your reasoning. To me, it seems consistent with my own experience plus the exaggeration that is part and parcel of heroic fantasy to think that if a night's rest will help, then so will trying harder at the urging of Gandalf or Aragorn.

 

[El Mahdi]

El Mahdi posted an opposing story above but to me that's a real corner case; people have very rarely survived falling out of airplanes too but that's no reason to say falls won't kill you...

So that's the argument now? That's the only argument left? That since it's a corner case we should disregard it?

ALL of D&D is a corner case.

The things that D&D characters do, the abilities that classes, races, and skills present are all corner cases. They're almost universally, things that are far beyond the abilities of normal people - or even real people. They're the one-in-a-million shot. Fantastic. Things that could only ever happen in fiction.

But something that actually happens in real-life, whether a corner case or not, should be excluded?

If that's all there is left, then the argument against inclusion of a Warlord is well and truly lost.


El "illuminating faulty logic for over 40 years" Mahdi

 

[El Mahdi]

I'm slowly beginning to realize this whole issue might have an answer sitting right there in 4e: the 'bloodied' mechanic. If you're not yet bloodied things like Warlord inspiration will have an effect as most if not all of your h.p. loss could be described as fatigue. But once you're bloodied (i.e. below half h.p.) then your h.p. loss is becoming more of a physical thing and inspirational words won't help...or only have half effect, or whatever. The last few points before reaching 0 can be defined as nearly all physical, so let's say if you're at or below 5 h.p. the only things that'll help you are either magic, a good rest, or someone taking some time (several minutes at least) over you with a healing kit.

Howzat?

While it mostly makes sense in the context of how inspirational healing works, I don't think it's a feasible addition to the game.

Having a Warlord works best if it's just a drop-in class - one which people can ignore as much as they want. It's probably the only way it can work.

But having to change the base game mechanics? That's almost certainly a no-go.

 

[Imaro]

So that's the argument now? That's the only argument left? That since it's a corner case we should disregard it?

ALL of D&D is a corner case.

The things that D&D characters do, the abilities that classes, races, and skills present are all corner cases. They're almost universally, things that are far beyond the abilities of normal people - or even real people. They're the one-in-a-million shot. Fantastic. Things that could only ever happen in fiction.

But something that actually happens in real-life, whether a corner case or not, should be excluded?

If that's all there is left, then the argument against inclusion of a Warlord is well and truly lost.


El "illuminating faulty logic for over 40 years" Mahdi

Dude your article doesn't show causation... nothing in that article proves scientifically or otherwise that it was the cries of the baby that caused/forced/allowed the mother to awaken from the coma... All you've shown is that two events happened around the same time along with numerous others.

 

[El Mahdi]

Dude your article doesn't show causation... nothing in that article proves scientifically or otherwise that it was the cries of the baby that caused/forced/allowed the mother to awaken from the coma... All you've shown is that two events happened around the same time along with numerous others.

What do I have to do? Go do the Google search for you? Go dig up case after case after case? All so y'all can give yet another illogical argument to justify exclusion? If I posted links to a hundred such cases, would it ever be enough?

It happens. Yes, it's extremely rare, but it happens!

Come on, Man.

This argument is even weaker than Lanefan's.

Just as Manus had hoped, the sound of her crying baby was just what Shelly needed to hear. “They say they saw a spike in my vitals when she did cry,” ... link

 

[El Mahdi]

So, let's recap:

Warlord inspirational healing is consistent with the games definition of Hit Points.

Warlord inspirational healing is consistent with real-world examples.

Warlord inspirational healing is an old and common trope in fiction.

Even if Warlord healing wasn't consistent with real-world examples, it wouldn't matter; plenty of things in D&D are unrealistic in a real-world context.

5E fans are not going to suddenly make a mass exodus from the game if the Warlord is included. For the few that might, they have significantly bigger problems than dislike of a class.

Consistency with alternate definitions of Hit Points is not necessary. If consistency with every possible external definition was necessary for the inclusion of a class, there would be no D&D at all.



Anything I missed?

 

[Imaro]

What do I have to do? Go do the Google search for you? Go dig up case after case after case? All so y'all can give yet another illogical argument to justify exclusion? If I posted links to a hundred such cases, would it ever be enough?

It happens. Yes, it's extremely rare, but it happens!

Come on, Man.

This argument is even weaker than Lanefan's.

The article you posted as evidence is what's weak. Show me where causality is proven in that article?? Yeah, I didn't think so. Show me where a doctor actually says that the baby crying was what actually ended the coma... didn't think so because you can't. Does a doctor even come into play in this story? Nope. Again... concurrence does not in and of itself lead to causality, if you think it does (as the people in this article assumed) then it's your logic that's flawed.

EDIT: In fact after reading the actual news story the mother didn't wake up until a week after the baby cried...

 

[El Mahdi]

The article you posted as evidence is what's weak. Show me where causality is proven in that article?? Yeah, I didn't think so. Show me where a doctor actually says that the baby crying was what actually ended the coma... didn't think so because you can't. Does a doctor even come into play in this story? Nope. Again... concurrence does not in and of itself lead to causality, if you think it does (as the people in this article assumed) then it's your logic that's flawed.

Just in case you missed it last time:

Just as Manus had hoped, the sound of her crying baby was just what Shelly needed to hear. “They say they saw a spike in my vitals when she did cry,”...

 

[Imaro]

Just in case you missed it last time:

Edit: You're assuming the only possible cause for the spike in vitals was the baby crying... even though the baby had been in skin to skin contact with her and made sounds before the crying (concurrence does not equal causality). There's no actual proof that's what happened...

And she didn't actually wake up until a week later...

 

[El Mahdi]

Edit: You're assuming the only possible cause for the spike in vitals was the baby crying... even though the baby had been in skin to skin contact with her and made sounds before the crying (concurrence does not equal causality). There's no actual proof that's what happened...

And she didn't actually wake up until a week later...