D&D 5E Darkness, Magical Darkness, and Heavily Obscured Areas

Pjack

Explorer
On careful reading, I think the intent of the 5e Darkness spell is that creatures inside the magical darkness can see illuminated areas that are outside the darkness. I suspect that being inside the radius of the Darkness spell is like being in a pitch-black cave. You might not be able to see your own hand in front of your face, but you could clearly see a lit candle 100 feet away, even if it's too far away to illuminate you.

As I recall, previous editions of D&D described the Darkness spell as completely blocking all light. The 5e Darkness spell, on the other hand, only states that nonmagical light can't illuminate it. It also states that creatures with darkvision "can't see through" the magical darkness, which might make it sound like there's an impenetrable barrier of darkness surrounding each creature within it. My feeling is that if the designers meant for the magical darkness to be a barrier that obscured all vision, they would have just said that creatures are blinded while in the magical darkness. (In fact, the most recent errata clarifies that you're not actually blinded while in a heavily obscured area such as darkness, but do effectively suffer from the blinded condition when trying to see something IN that area.) I believe that the areas of magical darkness are dark to creatures with darkvision, but I don't see why they couldn't use their darkvision when looking beyond the magical darkness. (Or looking into an illuminated area beyond the magical darkness, for that matter.)

[EDIT] You could take this interpretation to its logical conclusion, and say it doesn't prevent creatures on one side of the magical darkness from seeing illuminated areas on the other side of the magical darkness. If the Darkness spell was cast in, say, the middle of a long hallway, it would appear to a creature in that hallway that there was a thirty-foot, pitch-black chasm in the middle of the hallway, with no walls, ceiling, or floor... but they WOULD be able to see the hallway continuing on beyond the "chasm". Walking into the magical darkness, they would not be able to see themselves or anything else in the radius of the spell, but would still be able to see the hallway beyond the magical darkness, both in front of them and behind them. This can't possibly be the intent, however. For one thing, you would be unable to see sections of the far hallway obscured by creatures and objects inside the darkness. They would effectively cast a "shadow" on the area behind them, rendering the spell confusing and less effective.

Logical weirdness aside, treating Darkness as a "dark shadow" and not an "impenetrable black cloud" does have advantages. (For one thing, creatures with the ability to cast Darkness, such as Drow, could see outside the range of the Darkness effect.) On the other hand, it's kind of weird and hard to describe. In play, it might be easier to just to treat the Darkness spell as creating an impenetrable cloud of magical darkness, and say that characters in magical darkness "effectively suffer from the blinded condition" when trying to see anything inside or outside of the area. Like most everything else in 5e D&D, it's up to DM adjudication.
 
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redrick

First Post
On careful reading, I think the intent of the 5e Darkness spell is that creatures inside the magical darkness can see illuminated areas that are outside the darkness. I suspect that being inside the radius of the Darkness spell is like being in a pitch-black cave. You might not be able to see your own hand in front of your face, but you could clearly see a lit candle 100 feet away, even if it's too far away to illuminate you.

As I recall, previous editions of D&D described the Darkness spell as completely blocking all light. The 5e Darkness spell, on the other hand, only states that nonmagical light can't illuminate it. It also states that creatures with darkvision "can't see through" the magical darkness, which might make it sound like there's an impenetrable barrier of darkness surrounding each creature within it. My feeling is that if the designers meant for the magical darkness to be a barrier that obscured all vision, they would have just said that creatures are blinded while in the magical darkness. (In fact, the most recent errata clarifies that you're not actually blinded while in a heavily obscured area such as darkness, but do effectively suffer from the blinded condition when trying to see something IN that area.) I believe that the areas of magical darkness are dark to creatures with darkvision, but I don't see why they couldn't use their darkvision when looking beyond the magical darkness. (Or looking into an illuminated area beyond the magical darkness, for that matter.)

One odd wrinkle of this interpretation is that it doesn't prevent creatures on one side of the magical darkness from seeing illuminated areas on the other side of the magical darkness. If the Darkness spell was cast in, say, the middle of a long hallway, it would appear to a creature in that hallway that there was a thirty-foot, pitch-black chasm in the middle of the hallway, with no walls, ceiling, or floor... but they WOULD be able to see the hallway continuing on beyond the "chasm". Walking into the magical darkness, they would not be able to see themselves or anything else in the radius of the spell, but would still be able to see the hallway beyond the magical darkness, both in front of them and behind them.

This may indeed be the intent, and it does have advantages. (For one thing, creatures with the ability to cast Darkness, such as Drow, could see outside the range of the Darkness effect.) On the other hand, it's kind of weird and hard to describe. In play, it might be easier to just to treat the Darkness spell as creating an impenetrable cloud of magical darkness, and say that characters in magical darkness "effectively suffer from the blinded condition" when trying to see anything inside or outside of the area. Like most everything else in 5e D&D, it's up to DM adjudication.

As I have used this spell in play, the darkness can be seen past. The darkness just becomes like any other pool of darkness in an unevenly lit room, the catch being that even darkvision can't see into it. So, a darkness spell in a bright hallway would be just like looking down a hallway only lit at two ends, with the middle being dark. (Except there would be a very sharp fall-off at the borders of the darkness spell.)

The spell description evokes a bit of an anti-lantern quality, as, from Basic Rules pg 86, "If the point you choose is on an object you are holding or one that isn't being worn or carried, the darkness emanates from the object and moves with it. Completely covering the source of the darkness with an opaque object, such as a bowl or a helm, blocks the darkness."

But I could see it playing it the other way, where the darkness has a black hole effect that actually consumes all light passing through the affected area.
 

Pjack

Explorer
As I have used this spell in play, the darkness can be seen past. The darkness just becomes like any other pool of darkness in an unevenly lit room, the catch being that even darkvision can't see into it. So, a darkness spell in a bright hallway would be just like looking down a hallway only lit at two ends, with the middle being dark. (Except there would be a very sharp fall-off at the borders of the darkness spell.)

I originally agreed with this, then I thought about it and edited my original post. If the darkness obscured an object (say, a pillar, or a chair), then the area of the hallway extending behind that object wouldn't be visible to the observer. It's not x-ray vision; it doesn't let you see through objects, nor does it render the things inside it invisible. So a person trying to hide inside the magical darkness would cast a "shadow" on anything that was illuminated behind them. I like the "pool of darkness" explanation, but I think you have to say that people on the outside of the "pool" can't see into it or through it. It doesn't make sense, otherwise.
 


You could take this interpretation to its logical conclusion, and say it doesn't prevent creatures on one side of the magical darkness from seeing illuminated areas on the other side of the magical darkness. If the Darkness spell was cast in, say, the middle of a long hallway, it would appear to a creature in that hallway that there was a thirty-foot, pitch-black chasm in the middle of the hallway, with no walls, ceiling, or floor... but they WOULD be able to see the hallway continuing on beyond the "chasm".

Yes. Post-PHB errata, not only does this appear to be RAW, but it's fairly easy to explain physically: Darkness makes the objects within its radius absorb all light that hits them, reflecting none. From the right angle, you could still see the silhouettes of creatures in the blackness, but for D&D purposes they would be heavily obscured and nearly invisible.

It's certainly an improvement over the 5E PHB's initial rules on Darkness.
 

Help me understand the argument here, please.

Say you're in a waist-high grassy field on a bright summer day, and you cast darkness on a solitary small tree in the middle of that field.

- Does someone outside the darkness see the tree?
- if not, what do they see? Do they see the rest of the world behind the tree (the tree is invisible?)? Do they see a silhouette as Hemlock suggests (so the darkness spell is much more useful if cast with a wall behind you to eliminate the silhouetting)?
- Does someone inside the darkness see the tree and the grass within the darkness range?
- if not, how would you describe the boundary between the waist-high grass that you can see, and the part enclosed in the darkness?

Just trying to understand what is being proposed here, thanks in advance.
 

Hriston

Dungeon Master of Middle-earth
The spell says creatures with Darkvision can't see through the darkness. To me that means that no one can see what's in or on the other side of it. Also, if anyone is within the radius of the spell, they can't see out of it because that would be seeing through it.
 

That's how I have interpreted it too, Hriston, but since the thread seemed to be getting traction, I'm trying to understand the other perspective better in case I've been missing something.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Ruling anything else than darkness being an opaque blob of blackness leads to insanity, so don't do it.

Saying you rule "you can see past the darkness but not into it" might sound easy, but what does that even mean?

Just don't do it.
 

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