D&D 5E quick wild shape question

[pukunui]

Indeed. However, the hit points are the main thing, as a saber-toothed tiger has quite a few, and depending on how one accounts for them can have a significant impact on the druid's defensive CR (and thus on the overall CR). Plus, barkskin helps cancel out the beast form's low AC.

This is such a bother, I'm tempted just to give her the Shapechanger monster trait instead. It's not the same thing as Wild Shape, but at least I know it has no effect on CR since it says so in the DMG.

 

[PnPgamer]

Indeed. However, the hit points are the main thing, as a saber-toothed tiger has quite a few, and depending on how one accounts for them can have a significant impact on the druid's defensive CR (and thus on the overall CR). Plus, barkskin helps cancel out the beast form's low AC.

This is such a bother, I'm tempted just to give her the Shapechanger monster trait instead. It's not the same thing as Wild Shape, but at least I know it has no effect on CR since it says so in the DMG.

Well its a load of hp attack and damage bonus, so just add another +1 for it. No need to make things overly complicated. If it goes wrong then hey, more xp for the players. I doubt they complain.

What is the party composition and levels?

 

[Jaelommiss]

Personally I would only add HP from wildshaping once. While it is possible that it will happen twice, all play experience I have had suggests that it won't. CR is based on what happens in three rounds of combat, and I don't think that wildshape would come into play more than once in that time. I would also not factor Barkskin into CR because it is a concentration effect that will almost certainly break in the first round. It also takes an action to cast, which would mean that the expected damage output of round one would drop to 0, reducing offensive CR.

Challenge Rating - one wildshape, no barkskin**
Defensive: 2 (45 + 52 HP, 13 AC)
Offensive: 4 (+6 to hit, [14 + 16 + 16 + 16 / 3] + 2* = 22 damage)
Average CR: 3

Challenge Rating - one wildshape, barkskin + no attack first round
Defensive: 3 (45 + 52 HP, 16 AC)
Offensive: 3 (+6 to hit, [14 + 16 + 16 / 3] + 2* = 17 damage)
Average CR: 3

Challenge Rating - one wildshape, barkskin cast before battle
Defensive: 3 (45 + 52 HP, 16 AC)
Offensive: 4 (+6 to hit, [14 + 16 + 16 + 16 / 3] + 2* = 22 damage)
Average CR: 4


*Aggressive increases dpr by 2
**This is the calculation I would use

 

[pukunui]

Personally I would only add HP from wildshaping once. While it is possible that it will happen twice, all play experience I have had suggests that it won't. CR is based on what happens in three rounds of combat, and I don't think that wildshape would come into play more than once in that time.

Right! Of course. I forgot. Thanks.

*Aggressive increases dpr by 2

I forgot about that too! Does it matter that she can't use Aggressive and Wild Shape on the same turn (since they both require a bonus action)?

 

[Jaelommiss]

I forgot about that too! Does it matter that she can't use Aggressive and Wild Shape on the same turn (since they both require a bonus action)?

RAW, I don't think so, however it is certainly a valid concern. With wildshape shifting, wildshape healing (trade slots for d8 HP), and pounce all requiring a bonus action I think you have a solid justification for dropping the +2 dpr from aggressive. With that adjustment the first and third examples I listed have their OCR reduced to 3.

I think it is important to consider how you want the druid to work in play. Is this a druid who goes for the long fight, using wildshape to give itself a hit point buffer while gradually wearing down enemies, or is it going to be played like an enhanced saber-toothed tiger? Depending on that it might be worthwhile to give the druid a reaction allowing it to wildshape by expending a reaction upon taking damage when below half HP. With that modification I would be far more supportive of including both wildshapes in the CR calculation. If you're looking for a powerful druid boss (and I think you are, based on your first post) then this might be the way to go.

 

[pukunui]

OK. Thanks.