D&D 5E Life Cleric Multiclass armor prof

[Aeacus Moderne]

aha...

 

[Aeacus Moderne]

1) "If a specific rule contradicts a general rule, the specific rule wins." (PH, p. 7)
2) When multiclassing (i.e. picking a 2nd class, at a minimum at 2nd level), "you gain only some of that class’s starting proficiencies, as shown in the Multiclassing Proficiencies table" (PH, p. 164) That table has 1 entry for all clerics (all domains).
3) The different cleric domains have different granting language for proficiencies:
Life: "BONUS PROFICIENCY: When you choose this domain at 1st level, you gain proficiency with heavy armor."
Nature: "BONUS PROFICIENCY: Also at 1st level, you gain proficiency with heavy armor"
Tempest & War: "BONUS PROFICIENCY: At 1st level, you gain proficiency with martial weapons and heavy armor."

Q.E.D.: The Domain you choose, determines whether you do, or do not, get proficiency with heavy armor. Those who multiclass into Life Clerics, do not. Those who multiclass into Nature, Tempest, or War Clerics, do.

A principle for interpretation is that when different words or phrases are used, different meanings (effects) are intended.

 

[Ganymede81]

A principle for interpretation is that when different words or phrases are used, different meanings (effects) are intended.

This may be axiomatic with Constitutional interpretation, but it is most definitely not a given when interpreting game rules, especially when interpreting the rules of such an expansive and loosely-written game.

No, I think those multiclassing into cleric and choosing the life domain get heavy armour proficiency. If they don't then that means that someone who multiclasses ito cleric and picks up the nature domain don't get to choose a druid cantrip since they are no longer first level.

I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding the other side's argument.

The relevant rule is as follows: "When you gain a level in a class other than your first, you gain only some of that class's starting proficiencies, as shown in the Multiclassing Proficiencies table."

This rule only limits the ability to gain a class' starting proficiencies when it isn't your first class. The druid cantrip is most definitely not a starting proficiency, so the ability to gain it as a class feature is not limited by the multiclass rules.

To contrast, the martial weapon and heavy armor proficiencies, granted at first level by being a cleric of the war domain, are part of a cleric's starting proficiencies and are therefore limited by the multiclassing rules.

 

[FarBeyondC]

To contrast, the martial weapon and heavy armor proficiencies, granted at first level by being a cleric of the war domain, are part of a cleric's starting proficiencies and are therefore limited by the multiclassing rules.

I have to disagree with this on the grounds that subclass features (which must be chosen) are not base class features (which you have no choice in getting if you are a member of the class in question).

 

[Sword of Spirit]

3) The different cleric domains have different granting language for proficiencies:
Life: "BONUS PROFICIENCY: When you choose this domain at 1st level, you gain proficiency with heavy armor."
Nature: "BONUS PROFICIENCY: Also at 1st level, you gain proficiency with heavy armor"
Tempest & War: "BONUS PROFICIENCY: At 1st level, you gain proficiency with martial weapons and heavy armor."

Q.E.D.: The Domain you choose, determines whether you do, or do not, get proficiency with heavy armor. Those who multiclass into Life Clerics, do not. Those who multiclass into Nature, Tempest, or War Clerics, do.

A principle for interpretation is that when different words or phrases are used, different meanings (effects) are intended.

Those rules were not written by computers or lawyers. They were written by game designers. I really don't think they were putting that much thought into it.

 

[Simonb1]

I have to disagree with this on the grounds that subclass features (which must be chosen) are not base class features (which you have no choice in getting if you are a member of the class in question).

Also does each domain grant the same number of features?

Simon

Ps underlined text was inserted.

 

[Ganymede81]

I have to disagree with this on the grounds that subclass features (which must be chosen) are not base class features (which you have no choice in getting if you are a member of the class in question).

I think the distinction you make here, between subclass and base class, is one you made up out of whole cloth. This distinction does not exist in the multiclass rules, nor does it really exist anywhere else in the rules. Divine Domain is a class feature materially no different from proficiencies as a class feature.

The only distinction the multiclass rules make are between starting proficiencies and other proficiencies. The essential question to be asked is as follows: "Does a first level cleric start with these proficiencies?" In the case of both a war cleric's proficiency in martial weapons and a life cleric's proficiency in heavy armor, the answer is an emphatic yes.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

But a first level cleric doesn't start with those proficiencies, any more than a 1st level cleric who happens to have taken a feat starts with those extra weapon or armor proficiencies. A first level character does, but a cleric does not. Cleric is a class, and it doesn't care what other features you may have.

To clarify, I don't think starting with features as a first level character of a class matters at all, unless you start with those features by virtue of being a member of that class, and only that class, with the universal benefits of that class.

Now, I'm not sure I like the way it works out in particular instances, but I'd be surprised if the designers don't rule it that way when they get around to weighing in on it.

 

[Ganymede81]

To clarify, I don't think starting with features as a first level character of a class matters at all, unless you start with those features by virtue of being a member of that class, and only that class, with the universal benefits of that class.

The idea that proficiencies granted by a class feature is not a proficiency "by virtue of being a member of that class" is unsupported in the rules.

Not all clerics start with Heavy Armor proficiency, much in the same way that not all clerics start with Insight proficiency. Even so, when a cleric gains proficiency in Heavy Armor or Insight by virtue of its first level class features, they are starting proficiencies.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I'm sorry, but like half of the people in this thread, I'm going to have to completely disagree with that position.