D&D (2024) Clerics and 2014 Domains (+)

[Charlaquin]

I haven’t seen the book myself so @DavyGreenwind can correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the guidelines for using old subclasses with the revised classes is that when you get the subclass at 3rd level you get all of its 3rd level and lower features; and if you would gain a subclass feature that has the same name as a class feature, you can choose which version to take. Unless the cleric has additional specific rules for old subclasses, I think you would still get the 1st level subclass feature at 3rd level. In the case of cleric subclasses that only granted weapon and armor proficiencies, those proficiencies obviously won’t stack with the proficiencies from the Protector divine order, but if you take Thaumaturge, you’d still get those weapon and armor proficiencies when you pick up your subclass at 3rd level. And for subclasses that granted cantrips, skills, and/or tool proficiencies, I believe you still get those, in addition to the benefits of either divine order option, you just get them at 3rd level now instead of 1st.

 

[Yaarel]

@Remathilis

Consider the following costs:
4 points - origin feat
8 points - general feat

3 points - heavy armor (prereq medium)
1 point - martial weapon
3 points - all martial weapons
1 point - skill or tool (likely you already have the best skills)

2 points - skill + Wis (potentially worth much more such as adding two abilities to Perception, but in context like a very good skill)

2 points - a good cantrip (2014 cantrips vary between 3½ points and ½ point)

 

[Horwath]

And how does that equate to what is being discussed?

Decide how much is overlaping feature worth. Give that many bonus feats/half-feats

 

[DavyGreenwind]

I haven’t seen the book myself so @DavyGreenwind can correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the guidelines for using old subclasses with the revised classes is that when you get the subclass at 3rd level you get all of its 3rd level and lower features; and if you would gain a subclass feature that has the same name as a class feature, you can choose which version to take. Unless the cleric has additional specific rules for old subclasses, I think you would still get the 1st level subclass feature at 3rd level. In the case of cleric subclasses that only granted weapon and armor proficiencies, those proficiencies obviously won’t stack with the proficiencies from the Protector divine order, but if you take Thaumaturge, you’d still get those weapon and armor proficiencies when you pick up your subclass at 3rd level. And for subclasses that granted cantrips, skills, and/or tool proficiencies, I believe you still get those, in addition to the benefits of either divine order option, you just get them at 3rd level now instead of 1st.

There's no actual specific guidance about older subclasses (unlike older species and backgrounds, which get a sidebar). Older subclasses would get resolved the way you describe from the wording of the feature, as far as I can tell. At level 3, you get the subclass feature, not earlier. I think the last sentence of that feature addresses it: "For the rest of your career, you gain each of your subclass's features that are of your Cleric level or lower."

The "or lower" would cause the old level 1 cleric features to come online at level 3.

That's how I read it at least.

 

[Remathilis]

There's no actual specific guidance about older subclasses (unlike older species and backgrounds, which get a sidebar). Older subclasses would get resolved the way you describe from the wording of the feature, as far as I can tell. At level 3, you get the subclass feature, not earlier. I think the last sentence of that feature addresses it: "For the rest of your career, you gain each of your subclass's features that are of your Cleric level or lower."

The "or lower" would cause the old level 1 cleric features to come online at level 3.

That's how I read it at least.

Huh. Jeremy mentioned how you don't get Divine Strike and the level 8 feature from old domains in the cleric video. Can you confirm if that says anything about that?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

For what it's worth, a quick list of what each domain granted

Arcana: Two wizard cantrips
Death: Martial Weapons, one necromancy cantrip of any class which can target two creatures within 5 ft.
Forge: Heavy Armor and Smtih Tools
Grave: Spare the Dying at 30 ft range (part of circle of mortality)
Knowledge: Two Knowledge (acana, history, nature, religion) skills, "expertise" in those skills
Nature: Heavy Armor, druid cantrip, nature skill (animal handling, nature, survival)
Order: Heavy armor, intimidation/Persuasion
Peace: Insight, Performance, or Persuasion
Tempest Martial Weapons/heavy armor
Twilight: martial weapons/heavy armor

Perhaps separate the choice into four parts? That is, pick two:

Heavy armor
Martial weapons
Cantrip
Skill bonus (Arcana/Religion by default)

Because then the above things nearly all get two-three picks from that list, and you can buff the ones that fall behind by letting them pick more or giving some other benefit instead.

Arcana: Two strong cantrips
Death: Martial weapons, one cantrip. Decent. Not amazing. Seems fine.
Forge: Heavy armor and a ribbon--consider giving Athletics proficiency (or martial weapons, if feeling generous)
Grave: One specific cantrip--consider giving a second cantrip and/or a skill bonus
Knowledge: Two skills + expertise, no need to tweak, this is great
Nature: Heavy armor, one cantrip, and a skill--possible nerf?
Order: Heavy armor and a choice of two decent skills, seems fine
Peace: One skill from short list. Consider adding a cantrip or heavy armor (missionaries of peace must weather danger)
Tempest: Martial weapons and heavy armor. Perfectly fine.
Twilight: Ditto. This domain is already strong enough anyway.

 

[Ashrym]

The heavy armor and martial weapon proficiency to the base class via divine order. Also granting them via domain impacts that decision point.

I'd remove those from prior 5e domains and look at origin feats for a replacement as my first thought without additional guidance from the new PHB or WotC.

 

[pukunui]

Huh. Jeremy mentioned how you don't get Divine Strike and the level 8 feature from old domains in the cleric video. Can you confirm if that says anything about that?

The Blessed Strikes feature has a parenthetical statement that reads "if you get either option from a Cleric subclass in an older book, use only the option you choose for this feature".

From what I gather, that’s the only bit of advice about using older cleric subclasses in the cleric class section.

 

[Charlaquin]

The Blessed Strikes feature has a parenthetical statement that reads "if you get either option from a Cleric subclass in an older book, use only the option you choose for this feature".

From what I gather, that’s the only bit of advice about using older cleric subclasses in the cleric class section.

Yep, so like I thought, you get your divine order choice at 1st level, and then at 3rd level you get the subclass’s original 1st level feature (along with its 2nd and 3rd level features). This will mean if you plan to take a subclass that originally granted weapon or armor proficiencies, you’re strongly incentivized to take Thaumaturge for your divine order choice.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Yep, so like I thought, you get your divine order choice at 1st level, and then at 3rd level you get the subclass’s original 1st level feature (along with its 2nd and 3rd level features). This will mean if you plan to take a subclass that originally granted weapon or armor proficiencies, you’re strongly incentivized to take Thaumaturge for your divine order choice.

And, likewise, unless you really want that cantrip and Religion/Arcana bonus, any of the ones that didn't grant armor and weapons before have gotten a significant power-up.