D&D 5E LIFE DRAIN (Specter, Wraith, Wight, et al)

[industrygothica]

Maybe this is answered somewhere else, but I'll be damned if I can find it.


Life Drain Melee Spell Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 10 (3d6) necrotic damage. The target must succeed on a DC 10 Constitution saving throw or its hit point maximum is reduced by an amount equal to the damage taken. This reduction lasts until the creature finishes a long rest. The target dies if this effect reduces its hit point maximum to 0.


A PC who is currently 15/15 hp gets smacked by a specter for 8 points and fails his Con save, bringing his HP Maximum down to 8. Now the PC is effectively 7/8 hp.

The party takes a long rest, and things get weird.

The wording of the Life Drain mechanic says the max hp reduction lasts until a creature finishes a long rest. As DM I ruled that the PC healed to 8/8 at the end of his long rest, and that the max HP reduction would end after that, effectively making him 8/15 hp.

My players are an amazing group, and they understand my ruling despite not necessarily completely agreeing with it. I'm not completely convinced it's accurate myself, which is why I'm here. I think it's the right call, because I believe the RAI (Rules as Intented) is to make the Life Drain ability scary as hell. Having the effect disappear by simply taking a long rest, to me, negates any fear factor the ability is intended to case. By having to deal with the effects even after a long rest makes it significantly more meaningful.

In any case, I'd love to hear others' opinions. Am I right or wrong? Why?

Thanks in advance...

-IG

 

[Rune]

First, your example ought to put the drained hp total at 7/7. The Life Drain reduces the maximum hp by (not to) the same amount as damage taken by the Life Draining attack. Which is 15-8=7 in your example.

Second, I don't think your interpretation is RAI, but you are correct about it making the ability scarier (especially if it has been applied multiple times). If scary is what you're after, go for it. It won't break the game (although it might lead to a TPK).

 

[ad_hoc]

Having the effect disappear by simply taking a long rest, to me, negates any fear factor the ability is intended to case.

Well, long rests completely dispel the tension anyway. That is the point of the long rest.

How often are long rests happening? This might be the source of the problem.

I know the groups I am in are quite worried/scared about life drain when they know they have another 4-6 encounters to go. Those encounters suddenly got a lot deadlier.

Life drain means you can't get your hit points back on a short rest and it makes it easier to die outright from big damage attacks.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I agree with your ruling, as that is what the rule says. And if the players complain, tell them you could replace it with AD&D's life drain, and they lose a level, if they're not happy with your ruling

 

[MARCVS AVRELIVS]

Despite years playing Advanced Squad Leader (and some time playing Magic the Gathering), I've become less of a stickler for precise rule wordings.

From the SRD, "At the end of a long rest, a character regains all lost hit points." I figure the Life Drain effect, despite using the word "finish" intends also to happen at the end of the long rest, so allow the max hit points to go up and the hit points to be regained all at the same time.

The fear factor from Life Drain is more that by reducing max hit points, you're increasing the odds of the one-shot, instant death ("When damage reduces you to 0 hit points and there is damage remaining, you die if the remaining damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum.") So going to a max hit points of 7, if you're fighting something and you're down to say 3 hp, and it lands a 10hp blow on you - boom, dead character.

Which can make that long rest, after fighting a few Life Draining creatures, very tense - if you're interrupted.

 

[Krachek]

One scary thing with the Maximum HP reduction, is that it make killing blow more easy.

 

[ad_hoc]

I agree with your ruling, as that is what the rule says. And if the players complain, tell them you could replace it with AD&D's life drain, and they lose a level, if they're not happy with your ruling

Regaining hit points/hit dice also occurs when a character finishes a long rest.

They both occur at the same time.

That is a pretty antagonistic way to approach the game.

If the issue is that the party recovers after a long rest, the solution is to have fewer long rests, not to try to find loopholes in the rules and threaten the players if they don't like it.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Regaining hit points/hit dice also occurs when a character finishes a long rest.

They both occur at the same time.

That is a pretty antagonistic way to approach the game.

If the issue is that the party recovers after a long rest, the solution is to have fewer long rests, not to try to find loopholes in the rules and threaten the players if they don't like it.

My comment was tongue in check, hence the emoji

 

[CanadienneBacon]

And if the players complain, tell them you could replace it with AD&D's life drain, and they lose a level, if they're not happy with your ruling

Noting the smiley, which Sacrosanct has said is intended to convey levity, I'll pause to clarify. IG is DMing for a group of fellow DMs. One of us is also, I believe, a game designer for an alternate gaming system. All of us are working professionals. Probably more importantly, we're all friends. IG, being the really terrific DM and all-around-stand-up guy he is, invited us to discuss his ruling. No one complained. We wouldn't dare; all of us have way too much respect for what goes into running a game and for IG to do such a thing.

 

[Plaguescarred]

At the end of a long rest you should regain all lost hit points including your hit points maximum IMO. But ruling that they don't to make things more scary is fine ruling too as it has more impact. Basically it will be more taxing as it will probably cost ressources to heal up like spells potions etc, if the PC want to be at max HP.