D&D 5E Is Strahd a Campaign Killer?

[pukunui]

Hi all,

Is a visit to Castle Ravenloft best done as a standalone adventure, or can it be worked into an ongoing campaign?

I ask because I am currently running my 9th level PCs through the Amber Temple, which I had envisioned as a standalone adventure, but I am now feeling tempted to introduce them to Strahd and Castle Ravenloft afterwards. They'd be 10th level at that point.

Would that be a good idea, or would that be more likely to result in a campaign-ending TPK? Should I wait until they're 11th or 12th level, to make it a little easier? Or should I just forget it and run Curse of Strahd as a separate, self-contained campaign some other time?

If you were to insert Strahd into an ongoing episodic campaign, how would you go about doing it?


Thanks in advance!

Regards,
Jonathan

 

[Daern]

If they have or get the key items they'll kick Strahds butt, I imagine. Another option would be to use it as more of an RP location. They could get an invite from the curious Baron, explore around and escape or get chased out.

 

[flametitan]

How many PCs do you have again? With 4 level 10 pcs, Strahd will be deadly (for sub-optimal pcs) but with 5 he drops to a mere "hard" (alone, not with any companions). And of course, the math assumes no magic items, and stats at only 16. So if you put the artifacts in the castle, and have characters with ASIs in their prime stat, he shouldn't be too difficult of a fight.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

That depends entirely on how smart you intend to play Strahd. He has the tools to TPK a 12th level party; but it's essentially impossible to do that by accident, because any DM who understands 5E tactics well enough to TPK the party in such a situation also knows how to predict when such a TPK is on the horizon. If you run it as a straight-up fight where Strahd approaches the party and begins making attacks until he's dead, the fight will be somewhere between a cakewalk and "tough but doable," depending on how good your players​ are at tactics.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Strahd works best if he hits and runs. Taking advantage of mist form and his lair action that lets him walk through the Walls and Floors. (Because then the party can't follow him while he regenerates back to full hp.)

 

[abirdcall]

I would save it and use it as a separate adventure. I don't like the Temple so I have taken it out completely so you can do that too.

Castle Ravenloft and the fight with Strahd works best when there is history and stakes established by a campaign rather than just a dungeon.

 

[pukunui]

If they have or get the key items they'll kick Strahds butt, I imagine. Another option would be to use it as more of an RP location. They could get an invite from the curious Baron, explore around and escape or get chased out.

Would including the key items be a good idea in an ongoing campaign? They're all legendary items with some powerful effects.

How many PCs do you have again? With 4 level 10 pcs, Strahd will be deadly (for sub-optimal pcs) but with 5 he drops to a mere "hard" (alone, not with any companions). And of course, the math assumes no magic items, and stats at only 16. So if you put the artifacts in the castle, and have characters with ASIs in their prime stat, he shouldn't be too difficult of a fight.

I had five, but now I'm down to three or four depending on who's available. The PCs have a number of magic items, and an 18 here or there. No 20s yet.

That depends entirely on how smart you intend to play Strahd. He has the tools to TPK a 12th level party; but it's essentially impossible to do that by accident, because any DM who understands 5E tactics well enough to TPK the party in such a situation also knows how to predict when such a TPK is on the horizon. If you run it as a straight-up fight where Strahd approaches the party and begins making attacks until he's dead, the fight will be somewhere between a cakewalk and "tough but doable," depending on how good your players​ are at tactics.

I tend to play more tactically than my players do, although they're finally starting to get a good sense of when it's time to stick to their guns and when it's time to cut and run.

Strahd works best if he hits and runs. Taking advantage of mist form and his lair action that lets him walk through the Walls and Floors. (Because then the party can't follow him while he regenerates back to full hp.)

Right.

I would save it and use it as a separate adventure. I don't like the Temple so I have taken it out completely so you can do that too.

I love the temple, and yes, I have taken it out completely. But I'm still feeling the itch to have Strahd invite them to his castle as the next episode. Doesn't even have to be related. I'm not necessarily going to run the whole Curse of Strahd. I'm really just thinking of paring it down to the parts that were in the original adventure.

Castle Ravenloft and the fight with Strahd works best when there is history and stakes established by a campaign rather than just a dungeon.

But Castle Ravenloft was originally just a fairly short exploration of the castle and its vampire owner, right? It's only CoS that has really expanded it into a full campaign. Did people run the original Ravenloft mostly as a one-off rather than part of an ongoing campaign? (I've never played it.)

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I tend to play more tactically than my players do, although they're finally starting to get a good sense of when it's time to stick to their guns and when it's time to cut and run.

Sure, but what I mean is: are you planning to play Strahd extremely tactically?

If a 15-20 wolves and Strahd zombies assault the party from one direction of a castle courtyard, so that the front-liners go charging off to meet them and the spellcasters start hurling spells like Fireball and activating Spirit Guardians... and then a round into that fight, suddenly the cleric vanishes with a scream as something yanks him around the corner (Strahd under Greater Invisibility, using his enormous Stealth +14 or so and high mobility to sneak into the back lines and grapple + isolate the cleric), and now the front-liners are surrounded by wolves and zombies while the cleric's screams echo off the stones (taking damage repeatedly from Strahd's Legendary Action attack) and the wizard doesn't even have a clear line of sight to whatever it was that took the cleric...

...it's going to be a bad night for the PCs, but that fact won't surprise you as the DM. The surprise will be if they somehow manage to survive.

This plan of attack is within Strahd's capabilities to accomplish rather easily. There are others.

 

[pukunui]

[MENTION=6787650]Hemlock[/MENTION]: To be honest, I hadn't really thought about it in any great detail. That being said, I feel I should point out that there are no clerics (or paladins) in my world, which I imagine would make dealing with a foe like Strahd even harder than normal.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Combined with his lair actions and legendary actions, and some minions, he can be a beast. It really does boil down to how tactfully the DM playa him. If you read accounts of play online, you'all see some people claim he was a pushover....I think in any such case, the DM handled things poorly.

The Sunsword and Holy Symbol of Ravenkind actually do bolster the party quite a bit. But if played smart, those that wield those items should be targeted heavily by minions. Strahd should hit and run until the impact of those items is minimized or until the odds seem in his favor.

My players are 9th level, on the verge of 10th, and they'll be going to Castle Ravenloft soon. I don't expect them all to make it. Once it's over, they'all be heading back to Sigil to pick our campaign up from where things left off when they went through the mists.

You can definitely run this as part of an ongoing campaign. Strahd's abilities and allies can help sway things to his side, while the items sway things to the PCs. You should be able to figure out the right balance to create a challenging scenario but still have a campaign afterward.