D&D 5E DM Help! My rogue always spams Hide as a bonus action, and i cant target him!

[Maxperson]

If you are not currently observed, and you don't Hide, someone who comes into the room observes you.

Yes.

If you aren't currently observed, and you Hide, they have to make a perception check or something similar.

Yes.

"Can try to hide" means you get to roll hide and may become "hidden", because "hidden" isn't the same as "concealed".

Not exactly. Can try to hide can only happen if under observation before the hide attempt happens. If a person is alone in the room(unobserved) and he wants to hide, he succeeds on a -4 through the max possible roll with bonuses. Every roll is a success. There is no "try" involved. He simply hides and sets the perception DC with a roll. However, if being stared at, the elf can try to hide with an opposed hide vs. perception check, vanishing before the eyes of the observer if he rolls better.

 

[Hriston]

If your location isn't concealed unless hidden and that the rules say an invisible creature can’t be seen, so it can always try to hide, this very much invalidate your arguments right here.

No, it doesn't invalidate my arguments thank you very much. An invisible creature could be anywhere. We're talking about a creature that can only be in one place, such as the creature you saw going into the box. If you grapple an invisible creature, for example, then for as long as your grapple lasts it can't hide from you because you can feel where it is. An invisible creature can't hide if it's leaving tracks or shouting out a warning either, so "can always try to hide" assumes the absence of such inappropriate circumstances.

The woodelf and lightfoot halfling features, on the other hand, are not invisibility spells, and don't grant the ability to become invisible at will while being observed.

Even developpers answered in tweets that the features could be used in combat so they also seem to not share your interpretation.

I never said they couldn't be used in combat. They can be used in combat the same as anyone else's ability to hide, except they are not limited to the circumstances most creatures would need to stay hidden.

You location is always known before you hide since hiding is what conceal it!

If you are not hidden, your location is known to any potential observers. If there are no potential observers present, your location is unknown whether hidden or not.

If you could only hide when no one was around the rules would say so.

Of course you can stay hidden with others around. That's the whole point of hiding.

They instead say you can't hide when seen clearly and also this:


Hiding: When you hide, there’s a chance someone will notice you even if they aren’t searching. To determine whether such a creature notices you, the DM compares your Dexterity (Stealth) check with that creature’s passive Wisdom (Perception) score

You can't hide when seen clearly because it gives away your position to the observer. A potential observer can also detect you while trying to stay hidden.

 

[guachi]

And the special abilities of the wood elf and halfling specifically override this rule. As clarified quite plainly in Sage Advice.

 

[Maxperson]

You can't hide when seen clearly because it gives away your position to the observer. A potential observer can also detect you while trying to stay hidden.

You keep quoting the general rule as if it somehow trumps the specific halfling and wood elf rules. They have specifically said that if a wood elf is being stared at, which means it is under observation, it can still try to hide. That trumps the general rule you keep quoting as specific beats general.

 

[Hriston]

When you stare at nothing, you are staring at nothing. That's explicitly not staring at something. When you are staring at something, you are explicitly NOT staring at nothing, you are staring at the the thing you are staring at. Nobody in the history of time has stared directly at something without looking at it with their eyes......DIRECTLY. Not you. Not me. Not anyone.

You are confusing staring in the direction of something, with staring at something. Those are two different things. The sage advice didn't say that the elf can hide with someone staring in its direction, but not actually staring at the elf. It said staring at the elf.

You may disagree with the sage advice. You may even change it for your game. But English being English, that sage advice was explicitly about being able to hide while being observed.

You seem to be missing out on some of the nuances of the English language. Stare denotes that the eyes are wide open while looking, NOT that any specific visual information is being gathered by them. "Stare at the elf" doesn't mean "see the elf". If it did, then the elf wouldn't be able to hide while being stared at because you can't be hidden and be seen at the same time.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

You seem to be missing out on some of the nuances of the English language. Stare denotes that the eyes are wide open while looking, NOT that any specific visual information is being gathered by them. "Stare at the elf" doesn't mean "see the elf". If it did, then the elf wouldn't be able to hide while being stared at because you can't be hidden and be seen at the same time.

Stare is also often used to mean "look at something intensely and concentrated". Do you honestly think that Crawford chose to use this particular word when he really meant that an elf/halfling can not hide while being looked at?

"Observers" who don't actually "observe" anything. "Staring" without "seeing". Eactly how specific would Crawford have to be to convince you that he intended for the rules to allow hiding while being observed in some specific circumstances?

 

[Plaguescarred]

We're talking about a creature that can only be in one place, such as the creature you saw going into the box.

It doesn't matter where you see it disappearing as it's not a factor said to prevent someone to hide in the rules, you can hide when someone know your location in fact you usually know a creature's location until it hides actually! Then you must guess it's location. It could be very easy to guess a space if it has no other place around to move but now your sense don't inform you anymore of its actual location and may still be there or uit may not and could have teleported away.

You seem to be missing out on some of the nuances of the English language. Stare denotes that the eyes are wide open while looking, NOT that any specific visual information is being gathered by them. "Stare at the elf" doesn't mean "see the elf". If it did, then the elf wouldn't be able to hide while being stared at because you can't be hidden and be seen at the same time.

You're funny if creatures starring at the elf or any other creature are not seen like you claim then they can hide this wether they have these racial features or not! The Sage Advice is explaining that they can let them hide when they otherwise couldn't so it must mean when the creature starring them are actually seeing them don't you think? I'd like to remind you that the question answered in the Sage Advice is "Do the lightfoot halfling and wood elf hiding racial traits allow them to hide while observed?"

There's a thing you may forget is that there's no facing in 5E default rules and so creatures see and are alert for signs of danger all around them. So a creature half covered behind another or in lightly obscured foliage can be seen by everyone in an encounter and normally cannot hide in plain view as Sage Advice says. These racial features or the Skulker feat let you hide while observed , that's why the Sage Advice explicitly says they are capable of hiding in situations unavailable to most other creatures. Your counter-arguments is creatuing situations that allow everyone to hide, not just an elf or halfling.

 

[Maxperson]

You seem to be missing out on some of the nuances of the English language. Stare denotes that the eyes are wide open while looking, NOT that any specific visual information is being gathered by them. "Stare at the elf" doesn't mean "see the elf". If it did, then the elf wouldn't be able to hide while being stared at because you can't be hidden and be seen at the same time.

People don't use it that way. They use it to mean look at and see in an often uncomfortable manner. Especially when the context of the two sentences, and context is important, makes it exceedinly obvious that it is being used to indicate direct observation. The context uses the "look fixedly" definition, and the "look vacantly" definition makes no sense given that context.

 

[Maxperson]

You're funny if creatures starring at the elf or any other creature are not seen like you claim then they can hide this wether they have these racial features or not! The Sage Advice is explaining that they can let them hide when they otherwise couldn't so it must mean when the creature starring them are actually seeing them don't you think? I'd like to remind you that the question answered in the Sage Advice is "Do the lightfoot halfling and wood elf hiding racial traits allow them to hide while observed?"

Exactly. The context clearly shows which of the two "stares" is intended to be used here. It seems like [MENTION=6787503]Hriston[/MENTION] either doesn't understand the context, or is arguing disingenuously in an effort to "win".

 

[Hriston]

So you think that these racial features are extra conditions to be met in addition to not be seen clearly making it even harder for them to hide instead of making it easier for them to? Wow i don't even know what to tell you if you really think that

Don't be daft. Wood elves and lightfoots can stay hidden anywhere other races can, plus they can also stay hidden in their respective racial hiding places. No additional condition need be met.