D&D 5E DM Help! My rogue always spams Hide as a bonus action, and i cant target him!

[Plaguescarred]

IMC when an elf or halfling hides this way, i remove the figurine from the map and say it disappeared.

Is it hidden? Did it teleported or planeshifted away using a spell-like ability? Who knows but i wouldn't see a player telling me that it can't hide because he know it's still there while he only have suspicions until it can know for sure.

 

[Flamestrike]

Yeah, I pretty much agree with all this. I think this is the same conclusion we came to the last time we discussed the November 2015 Sage Advice. It maintains the ambiguity found in the rules and reveals that the whole thing is working as intended. Nevertheless, there are several posters here who think there's no way our individual interpretations could possibly be correct while insisting that theirs is.

They need to go to university and do a course on postmodernism and learn why this isnt true then.

They can scream [Text] means [X] and only [X] all they want, but they're self evidently wrong. You know it and I know it, and that makes it so. That doesnt mean their interpretaion of the text is any less valid than ours (or vice versa). But it does mean that youre wasting your time trying to persuade them otherwise, and are more likely than not just gonna travel around in circles saying the same things over and over again.

Hence why I weighed out of the conversation. It's ultimately up to the individual DM to decide how he or she interprets the hiding rules. Maybe gamist 'mashing the hide button' is your thing. Maybe a more common sense interpretation is up your alley. The rules support both interpretations (and variations thereof).

My advice was simply directed at the OP, who is using 'gamist interpretation'. He might be better served using the latter interpretation.

 

[Flamestrike]

IMC when an elf or halfling hides this way, i remove the figurine from the map and say it disappeared.

Is it hidden? Did it teleported or planeshifted away using a spell-like ability? Who knows but i wouldn't see a player telling me that it can't hide because he know it's still there while he only have suspicions until it can know for sure.

Jack in the box rogue is alive and well in your campaigns I see. More luck to you, but I'd find such an approach would ruin my immersion.

What if I told you because I saw the little bugger hide there, I am 100 percent sure the halfling is hiding there, so I advance on his location cautiously, expecting an attack from that direction, weapon out and alert.

Would you still grant advantage on the creatures attacks against me?

Remember, you (DM) cant tell me if I (player character) am 100 percent sure or not without treading on my agency.

 

[guachi]

Scene: pemerton's house

Child: Dad, can I have a cookie?
Dad pemerton: You can have a cookie, son. You may have the cookie you've been staring at intently.

<child goes and gets a cookie from the cookie jar>

Dad pemerton: What are you doing?! I didn't say "yes"!

 

[Maxperson]

Man, I've all but weighed out of the convo.

My position is that there are different intepretations of the rules for hiding (and that the rules are written in a manner that supports different interpretations). In other words we're all having an argument here more or less by design, and its impossible for one side or the other to be correct (more accurately; its impossible for either side to be incorrect).

If a DM prefers a 'break LOS/ mash the Hide button' interpretation of the hiding rules, then he is free to use it. If a DM prefers the more simulationist interpretation of 'you can not become hidden from a creature when a creature knows where you are', he is free to use that one.

My point was really that the OP seems to be using the former. He could instead use the latter interpretation, and not only still conform to the 'RAW' but also make hiding a little less 'mash the Hide button' and instead require more of a set-up to use.

It's a quasi-magical ability. Why would anyone view it as "mash the hide button", instead of what it is?

 

[Flamestrike]

It's a quasi-magical ability. Why would anyone view it as "mash the hide button", instead of what it is?

I partly agree its quasi magical. Its the ability to remain hidden, even when in plain sight and directly observed (such as standing behind a ficus or in rain and being directly stared at).

And yes the emphasis on 'remain' was intentional. Im aware you interpret the rules to enable hiding while being looked at. I interpret them as allowing a hidden creature to remain hidden while being looked at. Its a subtle but important distinction in our differing interpretation of the same passage of text.

 

[Flamestrike]

Scene: pemerton's house

Child: Dad, can I have a cookie?
Dad pemerton: You can have a cookie, son. You may have the cookie you've been staring at intently.

<child goes and gets a cookie from the cookie jar>

Dad pemerton: What are you doing?! I didn't say "yes"!

(Child watches Dad place cookies in jar).

Child: Can I have one of those cookies?
Dad: Yes, but first you must guess where those cookies are!
Child: Umm.. they're in the jar. I saw you put them there.
Dad: Are you sure? Even though you saw me put them there, I could have been pulling a trick on you!
Child: Yeah, nah. They're in the jar. Can I have one?
Dad: Only if you can find them first!
Child: Ummm, OK (opens the jar and grabs a cookie).

 

[Caliban]

Jack in the box rogue is alive and well in your campaigns I see. More luck to you, but I'd find such an approach would ruin my immersion.

What if I told you because I saw the little bugger hide there, I am 100 percent sure the halfling is hiding there, so I advance on his location cautiously, expecting an attack from that direction, weapon out and alert.

Would you still grant advantage on the creatures attacks against me?

Remember, you (DM) cant tell me if I (player character) am 100 percent sure or not without treading on my agency.

It's not about being "certain". Have your "agency" all you want, still doesn't mean the hidden rogue isn't gonna sneak attack you, because as certain as you think you are, you still can't see them.

Now if you are able to move to a position where you can see them clearly (i.e. no cover between you or any obscurement for them to hide in) then their stealth check doesn't matter. Just like your "certainty" doesn't matter if they are able to stealth.

It's a game. Somethings are modeled only loosely on reality.

 

[Flamestrike]

It's not about being "certain". Have your "agency" all you want, still doesn't mean the hidden rogue isn't gonna sneak attack you, because as certain as you think you are, you still can't see them.

In my games the rogue wouldnt be hidden in the first place (you're not hidden if the creature knows where you are) so I dont have to worry about this problem.

And I wouldnt grant sneak attack or advantage in this situation. The 'hidden' creature isnt hidden relative to the PC that is advancing on its position.

Now if you are able to move to a position where you can see them clearly (i.e. no cover between you or any obscurement for them to hide in) then their stealth check doesn't matter. Just like your "certainty" doesn't matter if they are able to stealth.

I disagree. The 'advantage' granted from an attack while hidden is because it comes unexpectedly (you dont know they're there or it comes from a different direction to that which you expect).

If you know where they are and are expecting an attack from them, I fail to see how they would get advantage.

Again, I dont have to deal with this problem in my games because if a creature knows where you are, you are not hidden.

 

[Caliban]

In my games the rogue wouldnt be hidden in the first place (you're not hidden if the creature knows where you are) so I dont have to worry about this problem.

And I wouldnt grant sneak attack or advantage in this situation. The 'hidden' creature isnt hidden relative to the PC that is advancing on its position.



I disagree. The 'advantage' granted from an attack while hidden is because it comes unexpectedly (you dont know they're there or it comes from a different direction to that which you expect).

If you know where they are and are expecting an attack from them, I fail to see how they would get advantage.

Again, I dont have to deal with this problem in my games because if a creature knows where you are, you are not hidden.

When you are the DM, that's your call. When you aren't the DM, it isn't your call. Whining about "player agency" won't win you any points at my table.