D&D 5E Encounters per day and session time

[Jer]

I'm now asking, for people who average 6-8 per day, how they fit them in a 4-5 hour game session?

I would bet that the answer is "they don't" for the most part. They might spread 6-8 encounters across 2-3 sessions, and have the "day" end somewhere across those sessions. A few people might play more combat heavy games and have 8 encounters in a single session, but I suspect most people do not.

I will speak out as someone for whom this just doesn't work. My regular group doesn't play weekly, and so we like to end our sessions at a "chapter break" (for lack of a better word) to give a sense of closure to the evening's outing. And it's much easier to pick up again with everyone rested when we come back a month later (or longer, given how personal lives have gotten crazier lately) than it is to try to remember exactly where we were resource-wise as well as where we were story-wise. I have very casual players and if the game is making them do too much work to have fun we'll likely end up playing something simpler.

So the way I make this work is that my games are planned as a series of one-shots - I plan them out like convention adventures and work out how they would fit into a 4 hour session. For more dramatic events in the campaign I plan on it being a two-parter where the PCs might get a short rest in between instead of a long one. It means that I might have 2 combat encounters in a session, but those 2 combat encounters are going to be nasty and hard and the equivalent of 4-6 encounters. And usually "important" - I replace the "minor" combat encounters with skill checks where failure might mean a minor loss of hit points and save the combat rules for the big climactic battles. (I also mostly run 13th age these days and that makes doing these things a bit easier, but I retrofit them into the D&D games I'm running when I can).

This has overall made the game more satisfying for my players, but YMMV. I think the "just make sure you're running 6-8 encounters per day" response doesn't take into account how some folks need to run their games and there actually are more knobs to turn with the system than those folks are giving credit for. But you do need to understand the assumption. Another way to "fix" this is to get rid of the idea of "rests" and replace them with "once per battle" for the "short rest" abilities and "once per every 6 battles" for the long rest ones. This is what they advise doing in 13th age for their "daily" abilities and it does work for 5e D&D as well (as well as for 4e D&D - actually it works really well for 4e). This drops the trope of a good night's rest restoring all of your abilities, and it adds a level of tracking that can be annoying to the game, but it's doable and it makes a minimal impact on the rules side of things even if it does make a large impact on the narrative side of what those abilities actually are.

 

[cooperjer]

I run an eight hour game minus a lunch break. I don't plan out how many encounters occur in the game, but when I setup the potential encounters I total the XP to find out if it's the recommended amount for a days worth with the given character levels. My players tend not to take a long rest when they could potentially be assaulted by enemies, i.e. they do not take long rests in dungeons or at castles. This allows me to predict that a days worth of XP should occur at one location or if more than a days worth of XP occurs then the characters should have a rest area. A couple examples follow:

The Red Hand of Doom adventure starts with an encounter at a keep. It then has an encounter planned at the town the adventures return to from the keep. I design the encounters at the keep plus the encounter at the town to meet the daily XP total recommended by the DMG. I might add a "random" encounter between the two locations to add XP if I want to enhance the story some or if I feel luck left the characters with more resources than expected for the next encounter in the town.

Princes of the Apocalypse has several levels of dungeon the characters can explore. I've only detailed the encounters for the first two levels, and I have only just started the adventure. However, I did plan out a full days worth of XP at the top level keep/tower. The second level of the dungeon happens to have about 1.5 days worth of XP, but there is a place for the characters to take a long rest and keep out of the way of the enemy.

I guess this doesn't address the number of encounters per day that a DM should have, but I feel the recommended XP per day in the DMG is a better metric of determining how difficult an adventure could be.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I've read a lot of threads lately where posters claim that the 6-8 med/hard encounters* per adventuring day is the best way to balance PC abilities against the standard monsters.

It's the best way (well, a way) to balance PCs with different resource schedules among them. The best way to balance an encounter might vary with the DM's style and the tone of the game. Maybe simply dialing the encounter up with more and badder monsters, maybe upgrading the individual monsters, etc...

I accept that the game system is based on this assumption, however outside of OD&D I have never found this many encounters, combat or otherwise, to be realistic at the table. My group's sessions last between 4-5 hours and we're good to get in 2-3 combat encounters per session

There's no need for game session to equal adventuring 'day.' You could take two or three sessions to get through each 'day,' and get in around the prescribed encounters/day.

For the DMs who find the 6-8 encounters/day works for them:
- how long are your sessions?

2-3 hrs at AL; 4, 6 or 8 at conventions

- do you have multiple sessions that take place within one adventuring day?

Yes in AL or a campaign.

- how long are your combats?

Mostly pretty short. If a combat threatens to drag, the monster doesn't have so many hps, afterall.

- how do you pace your adventures/scenarios?

According to the module in AL. Prettymuch wing it, otherwise. I'm not above laying down some railroad tracks or using old-school wandering monsters to pressure resources.

 

[MonkeyWrench]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm not sure where I gave off the impression that 1 adventure day = 1 session, but that's never been something I've strived for in my games. Most of my sessions encompass multiple adventuring days as that's the style that works for our group. im not sure stretching out a single adventuring day across multiple session, which might be week's a part, will work for our group though. Perhaps using the alternate rest rules from the DMG will help.

 

[iserith]

In my town-to-dungeon campaign, The Delve, I structure it as of phases of play that start and end in the town of Grimdark. Each session is 4.5 to 5 hours of real time. The dungeon exists in two realities and is only persistent in the campaign world for at most 24 hours then it disappears for a week and repeats the cycle. So each expedition involves managing time well so as to get the most out of a given adventuring day. Short rests are 8 hours; long rests are 1 week. Week 14 is this Saturday's session.

The sessions are structured this way:

- Intro/Recap Phase
- Town Phase
- Travel Phase
- Delve Phase
- Rest Phase (optional)
- Travel Phase
- End of Session Phase

In the Intro/Recap phase, we introduce new characters, establish character ties, and talk about what came before. This is followed up immediately by the Town phase in which we talk about and resolve the downtime activities of the returning PCs over the last seven days (or more if you missed sessions), goals for the current expedition, and any noteworthy purchases the PCs made. Then it's on to adventure!

In the Travel phase, I determine the weather and then the PCs have to make some decisions about how to travel the treacherous forest to get to the dungeon - pace, marching order, exploration tasks, whether they're trying to avoid encounters or looking for trouble, etc. We then resolve the exploration tasks, note the time it took to travel to the dungeon, check for random encounters, and if they come up, play them out.

Once they're at the dungeon - the Delve phase - they do whatever it is they set out to do for that week as discussed in the Town phase. While in the dungeon, they will tend to get into four to eight battles of varying difficulty on top of exploring and the odd social interaction scene. I'm including dealing with traps in the exploration pillar. They may or may not choose to do a short rest during this time, though they could generally choose to do up to two of them depending on how long it took them to travel and explore up to that point. During the Rest phase, which takes 8 hours, they work together to set up a camp, the result of which plays into their chance of random encounters. We also discuss how their character ties were referenced in previous scenes which is worth Inspiration. Watches are set and random encounter checks are made. At the end of the rest, they gain the benefits of a short rest and can level up if they've earned enough XP.

At around 11:15 pm (real time), the Thrice-Damned Horn sounds which signals the return of the dungeon to an alternate reality known as The Shade. The PCs need to get out of there before it shifts back or else they are driven mad and become NPCs. Once out, they either rest and then travel or just head straight back depending on their condition. This kicks off the Travel phase again which may or may not result in a random encounter.

Once back in Grimdark, we do the End of Session phase. This involves discussing any character ties that the players would like to change, recounting which PCs died or where dying on that expedition, talking about notable events, monsters, treasures, or feats of daring-do. All of this amounts to bonus XP. And then we end the session.

So that should give you an idea of the way things are paced and how we do anywhere from 6 to 10 encounters per adventuring day. Combats tend to be pretty quick - maybe 30 minutes for a complicated one, but otherwise they take 10-15 minutes. Most people who play in my campaigns will say that we get a lot done in the time we play and that there's plenty of action. @Valmarius, @Lanliss, or @Demorgus, all of whom are playing or have played in The Delve, might be able to add to this.

 

[Jer]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm not sure where I gave off the impression that 1 adventure day = 1 session, but that's never been something I've strived for in my games. Most of my sessions encompass multiple adventuring days as that's the style that works for our group.

Ah you've got the opposite problem of the "5-minute workday" - you've got a week's worth of narrative that's going on in a single session. Those kinds of games worked much better under 4th edition assumptions than under either 3e or 5e for me, but you can make them work.

Personally I think my advice above still mostly stands - balance your encounters with the assumption that the PCs will be able to "go nova" in every encounter and you'll mostly be okay. You need to be careful about throwing higher level monsters at them - even with 5e's bounded accuracy you want to make sure that the AC of the monsters is within range for your PCs to hit reliably because otherwise the battles turn into annoying slugfests with bags of hit points that won't go down after they've outlived their dramatic purpose and nobody likes chasing after bags of hit points in a mop up operation once it's obvious how the battle is going to turn out.

In sessions where I'm likely to have only one single setpiece battle where the PCs will be at full power, I like to actually make it 2-3 smaller battles strung together where there isn't enough time for them to catch their breath - just as the last opponent looks like he's going down, the dragon shows up. That kind of thing. You can't get away with that every session, but you might be surprised how often your players will let you get away with it if they're enjoying it and feeling the challenge. (And taking a page from 13th age I might even let them have the mechanical benefit of a "short rest" in between if it looks like they need it. Sometimes my PCs get a surge of inspiration from the new threat that has shown up and it rallies them as if they'd had a short rest. Or something like that - some justification for throwing the short rest mechanics into the mix without actually interrupting the battle and making it narratively two different battles instead of one big one.)

One of your comments said that your players were finding combat to be boring. I believe that if you're doing compressed narratives where a week's worth of narrative fits into a single session and you're building encounters by the book. Even double-strength encounters might be too weak.

im not sure stretching out a single adventuring day across multiple session, which might be week's a part, will work for our group though. Perhaps using the alternate rest rules from the DMG will help.

Go with what works for your group, fold and mutilate the rules to make them work for you. I think it's doable in 5e to run this kind of game - not as easily as it was in 4e, but still doable.

 

[Rhenny]

The question of what challenges each player or a party is really the tricky part.

Some groups are content to develop character and story and they will not care at all if the day includes 6-8 relatively easy encounters so that the ones toward the end of the day become a little more challenging, or they will also enjoy sessions that have little or no combat because they enjoy exploring and interacting as much or more than just fighting. Other groups really want to be tested in every encounter, so they don't feel challenged unless they have to blow many of their resources in 1 or 2 combats. It gets even more complicated when the group of players is a mix of types, some wanting more casual, less harried experiences, some wanting more life/death struggle more of the time.

This is an issue that can only be solved by DM tinkering and adjusting session by session, group by group. Personally, I try to strike a balance in all my sessions so that all types of players will at least get some of the "feel" they want. When I know that the entire group really wants to be held to the grindstone, then I change encounters to become more challenging so that they feel the sting more often.

Interestingly, sometimes, just the knowledge that a lethal hit, or spell or breath weapon can happen at any time, even when it doesn't happen, is enough to keep the tension level of the encounter high without making the encounter run longer. As an example, in the last game I played in, (playing as a bladesinger in a Phandelver campaign) our 3rd level party of 4 fought 6 Orcs (including one of them a leader type with more hit points and an extra attack or something like that), and an Ogre. I expended my bladesong, a blur spell, a burning hands spell and a shield spell. A few of the other players, the Paladin and the Cleric each used at least 1 spell each. We took down the leader and the Orcs first, and the Ogre kept attacking the Paladin but missing until it crunched him for 16 points of damage at about round 4. That one attack was enough to make us fear. I think we finished the encounter in 6 or 7 rounds, but at the end, only the Paladin and one other PC suffered any damage. By the numbers, this was between a hard and deadly encounter. We got a chance to rest after this, but we were not sure we would. We were still tense because we felt that other Orcs/Ogres could return to find us in their cave so we were on edge, even though we really didn't suffer so badly in the end. (This was the 2nd encounter of the day, having fought a lone Ogre earlier - and that encounter was a 2 or 3 round easy one with no use of resources or loss of hit points - but it was a warning of things to come)

Of course, at lower levels, it is probably much easier to adjust. I can see where it might get "too easy" later in the game when one or more of the PCs has lots of ways to mitigate damage or negate spell effects, but still, eventually someone's luck will run cold and a disaster will happen. As long as the players feel that at any time something unlucky could happen, or reinforcements can join the battle, or the foes can spring a trick/trap that does something unexpected, you can keep the tension level up even without PCs going unconscious or suffering too many wounds.

 

[Iry]

My players tend to race from one catastrophe to the next, which means that an entire month of actual gaming might represent a single IC day (though it varies). My players also tend to lean heavily towards politics and investigation, which means I might have one or two combats per 'adventuring day'.

As a consequence, those combats tend to be pretty brutal.

Because skill monkeys and problem solving spells are such a high priority, the bog standard Fighter is an endangered species in my games. That's just the way the cookie crumbles.

 

[GMMichael]

I don't understand the need for some sort of fixed encounters-per-day thing.

How about this: D&D is a combat game, with social- and exploration-curtains. The "6-8 encounters per day" actually means "the amount of fighting we expect will leave each PC at 1 hit point, while earning maximum XP before getting all resources back." Why is it fighting-based? Because the #1 resource in D&D is hit points, and you use those primarily when fighting. Other resources: spells, potions, and encounter powers.

No, I'm not talking 4th edition. 5th edition has encounter powers too, and you get them back when each encounter ends, i.e. the PCs take a short rest.

With the "PCs regain hit points and spells and powers on a long rest" rule, and a long rest happening most likely as PCs sleep for the day, the end of the day becomes the natural dividing line for measuring how many fights PCs can get into.

I'm not agreeing that any of this is a good idea, but I'm sure it meets D&D 5's design goals expertly. While confusing more than a few DMs who don't know this.

I'm looking for at-the-table practices and strategies. There are many ways players have to control when and how they approach combat (scouting, divination, etc), and I know how to handle those. I'm looking more for practical tips on how to fit in that many encounters without turning every session into a combat grindfest (the most likely outcome of that many combats from my perspective).

This might be impossible, since 6-8 fights per day IS a combat grindfest. The best practice, in case you and/or your players don't run combat super-fast, is to let your PCs taste an encounter long enough to implement their tactics, and then start fudging the deaths of the cannon-fodder monsters. Run half of the encounters like this, and for the other half run them normally, making the last encounter a boss-like fight (fudging harder, instead of easier).

 

[Bawylie]

I change the encounter pacing to fit the campaign.

Here's a few things I've done that work well for me:

1.) Move long rests off the in-game clock and just refresh everything at the end of session. Generally granting a long rest worth of restoration every other session fits fine. Every session for more heroic games. Every 3rd or 4th for grittier. You can also adjust to in-game circumstances if you want, but you ought to announce them in advance. "Folks, if we don't make it to the boss fight by the end of this session, you will not gain the long rest. Plan accordingly."

Now, for some players, they may not like that the rest is disconnected from the play. But it'll accommodate your encounter pacing just fine.

2.) I allow short rests as they can manage but charge them in downtime for long rests. In this system, at the end of every adventure I award XP and downtime which is used as a type of currency. They can spend it on the normal stuff like training, but they can also buy a long rest worth of recovery. Again this can be a little disconnected from in-game circumstances if you let them buy a rest anytime. But you could also simply say they need time and safety to purchase their long rest.

3.) Disallow long rests outside of sanctuaries, altogether. To benefit from one, you must be at a safe place like a town, temple, or warded shrine. Then you can add in little super shrines where you want and let them get a long rest effect out of a short rest.

4.) Hold no benefit for a long rest until the party has less than half their Hit Dice remaining.

I've had a few more tweaks I did in 3rd ed and 4E that were more specific to those systems.


-Brad