D&D 5E Why Good Players Should Not Play Champions

[Lucas Blackstone]

The Champion gets +1 to AC and +3 to initiative (always on) plus regeneration of 10 hp per round (up to half max).

Thats not bad.

It's not bad. I don't hate the Champion, I just believe him to be a little lacking like I said. A month or so ago I was in an Adventurer's League game and had a BM crossbow expert and used Menacing Attack against a Treant with my hand crossbow from 90 feet away. It still makes me laugh when I try to picture it. Not a proving point of BM being better or worse, the story just amuses me.

 

[flametitan]

It's not bad. I don't hate the Champion, I just believe him to be a little lacking like I said. A month or so ago I was in an Adventurer's League game and had a BM crossbow expert and used Menacing Attack against a Treant with my hand crossbow from 90 feet away. It still makes me laugh when I try to picture it. Not a proving point of BM being better or worse, the story just amuses me.

I'm just picturing the Treant had this moment of realization, something like:

"Ack, stupid archers, shooting with their stupid bows."

"Wait a minute. That bolt is made of wood. I'm made of wood. That must mean he's hunting me for wood for his arrows."

 

[Valetudo]

Just try yourself, you'll find the same result.

- Half-orc BM 3 / barbarian 5 with mace.
- Half-orc champ 3 / barbarian 5 with greataxe.
Both use reckless attack against the typical 65% hit target.
BM uses his SD on precision (near misses) and riposte.
Assume something like 35 rounds of combat (in 5-7 encounters) before short rest.


You will run out of hp before the champion catches up on the BM damage. I tried 3 different strategies before giving up.

That means nothing. Thats not actual play. White room math doesnt prove anything in dnd because there are so many variables. There are so many things that happen in actual play that your not acknowledging. Ive seen all three core fighter subclasses in play and the champion is fine, he holds his own. Honestly the bm only leads the pact at early levels. The ek pulls ahead after lvl 6 or 7 and the champion starts closing in on the bm when he get extra attacks and feats like pm, gwm. The champiom is also probably the best subclass for 2weapon fighters.

 

[MechaPilot]

The champiom is also probably the best subclass for 2weapon fighters.

The best fighter subclass for it, sure, that should be obvious. I mean, when your defining feature is "crits more often," you're going to excel more with higher damage dice weapons.

 

[Valetudo]

Plus a bm is not going to be costantly using his SD on every attack, especially if your mcing into barby. You get 4d8 per short rest. That is not that impressive at 8th lvl. Honestly I personally think the bm is not a good dip subclass, except for a few classes like the rogue. I think the ek is better for all spellcasters, even if they dump int.

 

[Valetudo]

The best fighter subclass for it, sure, that should be obvious. I mean, when your defining feature is "crits more often," you're going to excel more with higher damage dice weapons.

Not 2handed, 2weapon. Dual wielder.

 

[Zardnaar]

Plus a bm is not going to be costantly using his SD on every attack, especially if your mcing into barby. You get 4d8 per short rest. That is not that impressive at 8th lvl. Honestly I personally think the bm is not a good dip subclass, except for a few classes like the rogue. I think the ek is better for all spellcasters, even if they dump int.

Gets to use them more than the champion critting at low levels.

 

[Valetudo]

Gets to use them more than the champion critting at low levels.

Thats opinion, not fact. But like I said earlier the higher level you get the more the champ closes in on the bm. I never said he surpasses the bm. And the example Bid used was a bm3/barby5. That build is definatly better off as a champ. Bids fake math does nothing to change my opinion on that. Especially if you where to go to even higher levels of that build. Plus he doesnt even mention which subclass for the barby he used which can affect the outcome.

 

[Flamestrike]

It's not bad. I don't hate the Champion, I just believe him to be a little lacking like I said. A month or so ago I was in an Adventurer's League game and had a BM crossbow expert and used Menacing Attack against a Treant with my hand crossbow from 90 feet away. It still makes me laugh when I try to picture it. Not a proving point of BM being better or worse, the story just amuses me.

On its turn it throws a rock at you or animates two trees 60' away, they move 30' to you and bash you twice

 

[Flamestrike]

I'm just picturing the Treant had this moment of realization, something like:

"Wait a minute. That bolt is made of wood. I'm made of wood. That must mean...

..the arrow is made out of my mother. Nooooo!