D&D 5E (2014) Fist of Unbroken Air ... broken?

[jaelis]

Well if it counts as a spell, like for instance saelorn suggests, then it should obey the ki limit for spells.

 

[FrogReaver]

Using almost all your class features to deal 120ish damage per short rest isn't super impressive IMO. A fighter that action surges and precision attack and hits a decent number of times is pretty impressive at level 20 as well.

So no matter which way you read the ability I'd say unbroken.

 

[karthaugh]

"That creature must make a
Strength saving throw. On a failed save, the creature
takes 3d10 bludgeoning damage, plus an extra 1d10
bludgeoning damage for each additional ki point you
spend, and you can push the creature up to 20 feet away
from you and knock it prone. On a successful save, the
creature takes half as much damage, and you don't push
it or knock it prone."

The way I see it you have to declare your ki usage when you use the ability, same as when you choose the slot level for your fireball or whatever spell you use. The text is written a little differently due to how the monks abilities work. I wouldn't count as a spell probably, meaning it would have no limit, but that isn't that impresive. 21d10 once per short rest vs Save and take 10d10 or die 6 times per short rest for the open hand monk.

 

[jaelis]

Well, quivering palm has some action economy issues too. And it's melee not ranged. But yes, between the two of them I'd probably prefer quivering palm in most cases.

 

[Lysha Relanah]

Logically if it is not a "spell" and is not restricted by Ki limits there is nothing in the wording that states the damage is otherwise magical. Thus as bludgeoning damage it would be affected by resistance and immunity to non magical damage.

So I would either allow it to do that much damage but be affected by resistances or be limited by Ki and also be considered a spell while causing magical damage.

 

[Satyrn]

Yeah pretty much. Not to mention it has 20ft pushback and prone as side effects of that failed save. But then the Monk is out of ki. So I suppose if you suspect that 115 damage (average+1) is going to kill the BBEG, well, do it. It's probably the only Way of Four Elements ability that isn't lame. You'll note that Water Whip has almost identical damage and wording.

Aye. But reading the rules on this discipline, I noticed one that contrasts with Fist and Water Whip: Fangs of the Fire Snake says "and if you spend 1 ki point when the attack hits, it also deals an extra 1d10 fire damage."

This suggests to me that if the writers intended Fist to let ki be spent after the save, they'd have specified it.

 

[Caliban]

Is it any different than a paladin waiting to see if an attack hits or crits before spending spell slots on a smite?

 

[Gladius Legis]

If it did work like the Paladin's Smite, it'd actually be useful.

Alas, it clearly does not. And it's just another testament to the utter failure in design that is the Elemental Monk.

 

[Lucas Blackstone]

They way it is written it looks like to me that you spend the ki when you do the damage. It says how much ki you spend, not how much you spent. Past vs present. It also specifies to spend it after the save is made. ( I'm going by the quote above, I may have missed something else. )

Edit: The first sentence was missing in the quote, which complicates matters a bit. I still think you spend the ki when you do the damage due to the order it is written in, but I could see it being read as a cost spent before hand.

 

[ccs]

I don't have any problem letting the player choose how many additional Ki points to dump into this based on wether or not the save was made.
If they want to run themselves out of pts in the quest for rediculous damage? Ok.
Besides, 1) I'm the DM. I don't care if the badguys die. 2) this assumes the game lasts to these lvs.....

But if this ever comes up in a game? The whole table will vote on how to do it. Because anything the PCs can do, so can the enemies. So if the players think it'd be awesome to decide after the save they know enemy monks can do the same. And I have zero qualms about killing PCs & TPKs.