Perception with other skills

[Garthanos]

Mine won't be - my 4e knowledge skill is sitting at about -15.
Antoher idea is you could fall back on perception but use a different stat as the base modifier

The separation of stats and skills is perhaps a different but related concept I have been a proponent of that for a while as well.

Nature + Wisdom is noticing those tracks. (Perception Check)

Nature + Int is naming the creature (Knowledge Check)

Nature + Cha is influencing the animal. (Inflluence Check)

Still no need for a separate perception skill

 

[Garthanos]

So is diplomacy a possible chopping block or do we repurpose it where I used Noblesse below.

Convincing someone from the streets : Streetwise + Cha (Influence Check)
Convincing someone from the wilderness : Nature + Cha (Influence Check)
Convincing someone from an ancient culture : History + Cha (Influence Check)
Convincing someone from a high culture : Noblesse + Cha (Influence Check)

And while Streetwise sounds good for city folk... would nature go with a rural but not wilderness subject?... certainly some choices.

Recognizing some Heraldic Symbol : Noblesse + Int (Knowledge Check)
or remember the family who owns the Dying Moose Inn might be Streetwise +Int

Or either might be History + Int if it was from long ago.

 

[Garthanos]

What if an action overlaps? heavilly

You find a dusty Symbol on a Shield or Banner in a cave and are trying to figure out whose it was...

relates to History and Noblesse (yes I made it up I am keeping it thanks)

If you are untrained in one you use the other with a -2. OR in keeping with a reward flavor if you are trained in both +2, because the task is already going to be more difficult depending on how old it is.

 

[Garthanos]

Perhaps some physical examples

Travelling for more than 8 hours a day overland walk speed (Athletics + CON based)
Travelling faster quick march (Athletics + STR?)

Travelling stealthy avoiding trailing enemies and not standing out through a city (Stealth/Streetwise + Dex) with a +2 if you have both Streetwise and Stealth

The same through the forest trades Nature in for Wilderness...

Then there is Dungeoneering... it kind of introduces another flavor of wilderness

Foraging might indeed use wisdom
but the monster knowledge check would likely be Intelligence derived

 

[Rolenet]

And Religion! In fact in a previous campaing I used what we called "faith roll", that is Religion using Wis.

Nice ideas. I am familiar with the Skill+Ability mechanic because I also play a fair bit of Ars Magica, which has this distinction built-in. In ArM I find myself constantly bothered by the ubiquity of Awareness (the skill) + Perception (ability) rolls. Using Per with other skills is one thing - but removing Awareness would be better (in fairness, older editions had more than one Awareness-like skill).

Mixing several skills and/or abilities in one roll, could be interesting. ArM *used* to allow this, simply because Abilities ran from -5 to +5, centered on zero. You could pile up abilities. E.g. a Hunt+Per+Qik+Dex made sense. ArM 5th Ed rather stupidly broke this by centering on +1 for no reason.

 

[Garthanos]

ArM 5th Ed rather stupidly broke this by centering on +1 for no reason.

could be somebody completely unfamiliar said oooh you have zero quickness??? oh you are slow, one too many times LOL (Fate is another old one I have admired that does that centering on zero)

 

[Garthanos]

And Religion! In fact in a previous campaing I used what we called "faith roll", that is Religion using Wis.

Motivation even makes a difference

Religion +Int could be reciting litanies or fundamental stories to show you know them or get clues out of them
But doing so in a way that convinces people to help... Religion + Cha

 

[Grogg of the North]

My take on all skills, perception included, has been something like:

"Roll Religion or Planes. Whatever is higher. And don't forget to add your 'I'm a dwarf and therefore awesome bonus' to your roll."

If you want to change the skills based on the nature of the roll, you could easily just add small Super Secret DM Modifier. If the fighter has in his background that he hates giants and has roleplayed that consistently; then I don't see why as a DM when I ask for a perception roll that I can't modify it on his behalf.

 

[Garthanos]

So is diplomacy a possible chopping block or do we repurpose it where I used Noblesse below.

Convincing someone from the streets : Streetwise + Cha (Influence Check)
Convincing someone from the wilderness : Nature + Cha (Influence Check)
Convincing someone from an ancient culture : History + Cha (Influence Check)
Convincing someone from a high culture : Noblesse + Cha (Influence Check)

This really really also brings up Insight.... its REALLY REALLY people oriented perception anyway... if we are ditching Perception
what about this??????

Groking someone from the streets : Streetwise + Wis (Insight Check)
Groking someone from the wilderness : Nature + Wis (Insight Check)
Groking someone from an ancient culture : History + Wis (Insight Check)
Groking someone from a high culture : Noblesse + Wis (Insight Check)

 

[Rolenet]

Alright, bonus question... for 1XP: How does a "keywording" system could play into this?
I.e. if your background stuff were represented by hardcoded keywords (a bit like Wrecan's 36 aspects). E.g. I've got say "Noblesse; Vecna worship; Arrogant; Fallcrest".

That would be a way to plug in @Grogg of the North's Awesome Dwarves Super Secret DM Mod, without resorting to an on-the-fly arbitrary decision (which I avoid whenever possible).