D&D 5E Mike Mearls interview - states that they may be getting off of the 2 AP/year train.

[Shasarak]

But the political situation that allowed for the backdrop in Raiders of the Lost Ark only lasted for a scant few years, 1933 to 1939 (the period from the Nazis seizing power in Germany to the start of WW2). After that, the world changes significantly which invalidates many of the stories you could tell. Now, that opens up a whole new bunch of stories, but if you were attracted to the world because of its 30s pulp feel, and it then turned into a world war you'd get quite disappointed in the setting's caretakers.

It does not change the fact that the Raiders of the Lost Ark is not a true story. It did not really happen. And yet Spielberg was able to "somehow" fit it into the real world history. I know, right? And this happens all the time - all these stories set in different parts of our "living" world.

But if I don't like the direction in which the developers are taking the setting, that makes future supplements unusable to me. And this is not some hypothetical scenario - it's one I've personally encountered in the Realms. I thought the description of Tethyr in the 2e FRCS box sounded like a very fertile setting for adventure (country torn by civil war for 20 years, so each little plot of land has its own warlord/baron that can send adventurers off to do things, or maybe the adventurers are just looking out for the common man), so I bought Lands of Intrigue, the boxed set that covered Amn and Tethyr. But the Tethyr in that box was very different from the Tethyr portrayed in the FRCS - now the civil war was over, and a rightful king along with a far more capable queen had returned and put things in order again. And all of that stuff had happened in a novel trilogy.

Ok, so you dont like the way a living world goes. I get it, it happens, the Spell Plague is a thing for me too. But there is nothing worse then a world stuck forever in a lump of amber never growing never changing. Sure it is easy for the writers but what would the Harry Potter books have been like if he was stuck as 11 years old all the time like some kind of English version of Bart Simpson. What about Dragonlance where we get one whacky adventure after another of Raistlin and friends who never achieving anything of note.

Another issue is that it often creates a very weird, unstable world, because the metaplot machine needs fuel. Just look at the period of 1357 to 1372 DR (15 years, the period between the 1e FRCS and the 3e FRCS). In that time, the Realms have had these things happen:
* The ancient god Moander rising again, but being banished.
* The Time of Troubles, where a few gods died (notably Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul), a few new ones ascended (Cyric and the new Mystra), and a few gods disappeared (Waukeen).
* Invasion of the Tuigan horde (essentially the Mongols).
* Maztica (America) discovered.
* The reclamation of Tethyr.
* A plot by the new god Cyric to mind-control people into worshiping him, which backfires and leaves Zhentil Keep in ruins and causes him to lose the portfolio of Death to the new god Kelemvor.
* Daggerdale is liberated from the Zhentarim who were occupying it.
* The goddess Waukeen is liberated from her captivity in the Abyss by a band of adventurers, and she returns as the Goddess of trade and wealth.
* With the help of an artifact provided by Khelben Blackstaff, Fzoul Chembryl manages to release Bane's demi-god son Iyachtu Xvim from a prison beneath Zhentil Keep, and have him claim the portfolio of Tyranny from Cyric and become a lesser god in the process.
* As fallout from the previous point, the Harpers split because the leadership did not approve of Khelben providing Fzoul with said artifact.
* Manshoon, the leader of the Zhentarim, is killed by Fzoul Chembryl as part of the latter's effort to take over the Zhentarim. Somehow his Static Clone spell (which created a bunch of backups for him) got messed up, and all the clones activated and started fighting one another to the death. One of them got vampirized.
* A dragon leads an army of orcs and goblins in an attack against Cormyr, but is repelled. King Azoun IV dies in the process, leaving his young son Azoun V the nominal king, but the country lead by a regent.
* Mulhorand invades and conquers Unther.
* Turns out Bane was using his son Xvim as an incubator of sorts, so Bane returns (killing Xvim in the process).
* A flying city full of ancient archmages that went on a tour of the Shadow Plane in order to avoid the destruction of Netheril reappears.
* The town of Tilverton, near Anauroch, was destroyed by some unknown magical force but that seemingly had something to do with shadows.

That's a lot of stuff happening in quick succession. For someone jumping in at this point in the setting's history, that's a lot of recent events to take in and try to make sense of - and that's another problem with metaplots: they make it harder for new people to become accustomed to the setting, because they can't just get the core book and some random sourcebook. Because the sourcebook will probably refer to a bunch of stuff that happened in between the release of the core book and that particular sourcebook, and the new customer will go "What the heck is this? Why are they talking about the Banedeath a lot - there's nothing about that in the core book? Is that something I'm supposed to know about? Screw this, I'll go back to Diablo."

Are you really telling me that an unstable world is a "bad" thing for an adventure game like DnD? What do you call the current batch of adventures - a quiet time on the Sword coast?

I dont follow WoW at all but I think I would be safe in assuming that someone could make a very similar list of stuff that was happening in the MMORG. Does all of that stuff also make people want to quit and play Diablo? I guess Diablo is great for those type of players who just enjoy endlessly repeating the same story over and over. Which is why you have different games that appeal to different markets.

 

[Shasarak]

I think it's important to remember that Mearls and co do not want to do books the way they've been done in past settings. Instead of Monster Manual II, for instance, we got Volo's. Instead of a PHB 2, we're (hopefully) getting a big book of crunch that I am sure will have a twist or theme or spin similar to Volo's or TftYP.

Instead of Tomb of Horrors and The Keep on the Borderlands we are getting... the Tomb of Horrors and The Keep on the Borderlands....in Hardcover!

 

[Staffan]

There's one teeny-tiny bit of a problem with your reasoning. Namely that that effect works for every long-lasting novel series, tv show, comics, video games, movie franchise, everything. Still, people like them and not just watching/reading one-shots and short stories, but watching and reading GoT an Once Upon a Time and Dresden Files and Wheel of Time and every superhero comic. You could counter the effect with explanations and that's what writers do and partly that's the reason for updating CSGs, to bring new people up to date.

The difference is that novel series, tv shows (assuming continuity-based ones), and so on are generally enjoyed sequentially. While I think the Babylon 5 episode Shattered Dreams is one of the finest TV episodes of all time, and it has the Hugo to prove it, I wouldn't dream of telling someone who hasn't watched the previous 2½ seasons of Babylon 5 to watch it. They wouldn't know the context. RPG sourcebooks, on the other hand, are generally organized topically rather than sequentially.

In the real world, an analogy would be if the tourist guidebook to Barcelona had a bunch of references to the same company's guidebooks to London, Paris, Hamburg, and Florence so you needed to have these in order to fully understand the Barcelona guidebook. Oh, and the Paris and Hamburg guides are out-of-print, so they're hard to find even if you want them.

I also note that all your examples are storytelling mediums. But I don't want my game material to tell me stories. I want it to tell me facts, albeit fictional facts, and inspire me to tell my own stories based on those facts.

 

[Staffan]

Are you really telling me that an unstable world is a "bad" thing for an adventure game like DnD? What do you call the current batch of adventures - a quiet time on the Sword coast?

I want a world where, instead of a zillion things recently going boom, there are a zillion things that could go boom at any moment, and it's up to the PCs to stop whatever thing is currently on the verge of going boom.

 

[Shasarak]

I want a world where, instead of a zillion things recently going boom, there are a zillion things that could go boom at any moment, and it's up to the PCs to stop whatever thing is currently on the verge of going boom.

You just gave me a list of (close to) a zillion things going boom. Depending on what area they are in, the PCs could be dropped in to any of those stories. You have Zhentil Keep, Cormyr, The Tuigan, The Harpers and the Shades as well as plenty of others like my favourite Red Wizards and the Cult of the Dragon.

 

[Staffan]

That said, considering the fact that they used to have different d20 lines and dropped them after Star Wars Saga, maybe different RPGs don't sell enough to justify their production...

As I understand it, Wizards losing the Star Wars license was more a matter of diminishing returns. They had done a core book, sourcebooks on various eras (Knights of the Old Republic, Clone Wars, Force Unleashed, Rebellion, Legacy era), on various campaign types (Scum & Villainy, war, intrigue, exploration), and various system explorations (droids, the Force, NPCs, starships). There wasn't really all that much more to do, so Wizards didn't see the point in extending the license. Had they done so, you'd probably have seen sourcebooks delving into particular novel trilogies (Heir to the Empire, Yuuzhan Vong, etc.), and I don't think anyone would have been happy with that.

 

[Staffan]

You just gave me a list of (close to) a zillion things going boom. Depending on what area they are in, the PCs could be dropped in to any of those stories. You have Zhentil Keep, Cormyr, The Tuigan, The Harpers and the Shades as well as plenty of others like my favourite Red Wizards and the Cult of the Dragon.

But that's the stuff that has already gone boom if your entry point is the 3e FRCS. And I don't want all the things actually going boom. I, as a DM, want a menu presented to me of stuff that might go boom, so I can choose what actually does go boom.

 

[Shasarak]

But that's the stuff that has already gone boom if your entry point is the 3e FRCS. And I don't want all the things actually going boom. I, as a DM, want a menu presented to me of stuff that might go boom, so I can choose what actually does go boom.

I could give you a list of stuff that has already gone boom from the Eberron Campaign Guide too. Or from any world book you choose to pick up. Stuff going boom sets the scene for what happens next - what would the Lord of Blades be without the Mournland? I cant turn around and complain that the Eberron Campaign Guide sucks because the war has already finished and I wanted to use it.

 

[PMárk]

The difference is that novel series, tv shows (assuming continuity-based ones), and so on are generally enjoyed sequentially. While I think the Babylon 5 episode Shattered Dreams is one of the finest TV episodes of all time, and it has the Hugo to prove it, I wouldn't dream of telling someone who hasn't watched the previous 2½ seasons of Babylon 5 to watch it. They wouldn't know the context. RPG sourcebooks, on the other hand, are generally organized topically rather than sequentially.

Depends on the rpg and you could do both. Regional books are organized topically, but they could be sequential to their earlier iterations, for example. Event books are sequential.

In the real world, an analogy would be if the tourist guidebook to Barcelona had a bunch of references to the same company's guidebooks to London, Paris, Hamburg, and Florence so you needed to have these in order to fully understand the Barcelona guidebook. Oh, and the Paris and Hamburg guides are out-of-print, so they're hard to find even if you want them.

Tourist guide books are still referencing historical events. Also, rpg books, even about regions aren't just tourist guides (that was my problem with the SCAG), but story material.

I also note that all your examples are storytelling mediums. But I don't want my game material to tell me stories. I want it to tell me facts, albeit fictional facts, and inspire me to tell my own stories based on those facts.

And that's, IMO the biggest part and the part we'd never agree on. You just want a setting, a baseline to tell your own stories. I, on the other hand want the setting to tell it's own stories too, partly because I enjoy the feeling of a living world around my own stories and partly because a significant part of rpg brand enjoyment to me is following the story of characters I like on worlds I'm interested in and also i think it adds to my immersion to experience the world through their residents' eyes it adds million little details that make it believable and interesting. To me, these are both mediums to tell my own stories and mediums to enjoy stories when I don't make my own.

 

[Staffan]

I could give you a list of stuff that has already gone boom from the Eberron Campaign Guide too. Or from any world book you choose to pick up. Stuff going boom sets the scene for what happens next - what would the Lord of Blades be without the Mournland? I cant turn around and complain that the Eberron Campaign Guide sucks because the war has already finished and I wanted to use it.

In Eberron, there's one main thing that has gone boom recently, and that's the Last War - admittedly, that's a very big boom, with lots of things that are consequences of that one big boom, but following that the world seems to enter a period of tense stability.

In the original Dark Sun setting, the world has been in stasis for a rather long time. The most recent large-scale events were the disasters that befell the city-states of Kalidnay and Yaramuke, and both those were "some time before I was born". Of course, once the setting was released a whole lot of things started happening real fast.