D&D 5E Heat Metal Rules Interp / Minor Nerf

[Warmaster Horus]

First, as has been pointed out you can maintain concentration on a spell no matter what the range. A few spells say you can't be on another plane is the only limitation. It's also been specifically clarified in the official sage advice compendium if you want to look....

True, there is no stated range on concentration other than some specify same plane. If you are concerned about a wizard casting Heat Metal on a 1st level PC and then teleporting to the other side of the planet, the encounter has more problems than just spell selection. At higher levels use Dispel Magic (or Counterspell it as it's being cast), break caster concentration or soak the damage and heal. Next to poison, fire is the most common damage type to have resistance and only targets metal which makes it even less useful as a general purpose spell. Certainly a nasty way to go, though. But, like, D&D, you know?

 

[Oofta]

True, there is no stated range on concentration other than some specify same plane. If you are concerned about a wizard casting Heat Metal on a 1st level PC and then teleporting to the other side of the planet, the encounter has more problems than just spell selection. At higher levels use Dispel Magic (or Counterspell it as it's being cast), break caster concentration or soak the damage and heal. Next to poison, fire is the most common damage type to have resistance and only targets metal which makes it even less useful as a general purpose spell. Certainly a nasty way to go, though. But, like, D&D, you know?

I'm not worried about the 1st level fighter. I'm worried about the <pick a level anywhere up to 20> PC or NPC in heavy armor. Especially if no one happens to have dispel magic. Or any number of other scenarios.

It's not the damage (although ongoing damage you can't prevent is powerful) it's the disadvantage for the rest of the combat. The caster doesn't have to teleport away, they just have to cast from a significant distance away and run away, hide or have other protections. Getting someone to fail concentration if they have war caster is not a guarantee.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

I'm not worried about the 1st level fighter. I'm worried about the <pick a level anywhere up to 20> PC or NPC in heavy armor. Especially if no one happens to have dispel magic. Or any number of other scenarios.

It's not the damage (although ongoing damage you can't prevent is powerful) it's the disadvantage for the rest of the combat. The caster doesn't have to teleport away, they just have to cast from a significant distance away and run away, hide or have other protections. Getting someone to fail concentration if they have war caster is not a guarantee.

That is definitely something to be worried about. But it doesn't mean the spell is broken. Other 2nd level spells are just as scary. Hold Person. OMG! At higher levels it can freeze an entire party and provide to-hit advantage and insta-crits to opponents. Yeah, unlike Heat Metal there's a save. But there isn't a metalic target requirement and it doesn't go against a fairly easy damage type to resist. My fighter (+2 Wisdom save) was Held (DC 17) in a battle against Fire Giants recently. DO NOT WANT! But it's D&D and if you live you do your best to prepare for that situation again in the future, though in most cases there's always risk.

 

[Oofta]

That is definitely something to be worried about. But it doesn't mean the spell is broken. Other 2nd level spells are just as scary. Hold Person. OMG! At higher levels it can freeze an entire party and provide to-hit advantage and insta-crits to opponents. Yeah, unlike Heat Metal there's a save. But there isn't a metalic target requirement and it doesn't go against a fairly easy damage type to resist. My fighter (+2 Wisdom save) was Held (DC 17) in a battle against Fire Giants recently. DO NOT WANT! But it's D&D and if you live you do your best to prepare for that situation again in the future, though in most cases there's always risk.

I think you're underestimating how powerful disadvantage and auto damage is, especially if cast at a higher level.

I just got tired of it being cast every single combat, it made it much more difficult to determine appropriate CR because of the structure of the campaign I was running. I also don't metagame - I don't assume that the bad guys should know which character was casting the spell unless they were also spellcasters.

Anyway. I just really popped into this thread to explain why I see it as an issue and how I handled it. The first round it's always in effect, after that the target gets a save.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

I think you're underestimating how powerful disadvantage and auto damage is, especially if cast at a higher level.

I don't think I'm underestimating that. It sucks. But so does getting breathed on by a dragon. It's something you need to plan for and have a way of dealing with. As has been shown there are ways of doing that.

I just got tired of it being cast every single combat, it made it much more difficult to determine appropriate CR because of the structure of the campaign I was running...

Absolutely. It sucks to be spammed by annoying, hard to deal with attacks. If your party has problems with it then it's probably time for that spell to only show up every so often as an old and hated friend.

 

[Oofta]

Absolutely. It sucks to be spammed by annoying, hard to deal with attacks. If your party has problems with it then it's probably time for that spell to only show up every so often as an old and hated friend.

LOL ... you're reading it wrong. I was the DM, all my bad guys were being spammed.

I don't really care if the players have effective combos. I don't care if occasionally they come up with a clever ploy to stomp all over what I thought would be a tough encounter. But when the first spell, every combat encounter was heat metal on the lead bad guy I had a couple of choices. I could escalate and make the leaders immune to fire, give them asbestos armor, I could increase the encounter difficulty level. Or I could do what I did and come up with a reasonable alternative to adjust the spell to be what I think is appropriate to a second level spell.

The one-trick-wonder heat metal was basically an "I win" button for the party, particularly if it was a boss fight with a single armored target.

 

[CM]

I think I'd rather be affected by a heat metal than a hold person.

The groups I play in assume that the caster must have LOS and be in range to use the bonus action to deal the spell's damage again, so there isn't much opportunity to hide with it up. Maybe not every group plays it that way, though. This allows the target to run and hide though, as one counter.

 

[Brandegoris]

Sounds like players need to start running into more Fire Giants in leather armor ASAP!

 

[Geeknamese]

Sounds like it's time for my Smith's Tools Expertise skilled Artificer Gunsmith to create the innovative quick-release heavy armor system. Wonder if there's Kickstarter in the Realms lol.

Anyhow, there's a Con Save against the disadvantage and there's also disrupting concentration. If these are all humanoids the players are facing, they should be smart enough to know to go after the caster first. If the players are going to do cheese like cast from the shadows and then run off and teleport because the rules say they can then have a smart a just as cheesy NPC boss stay back in the shadows to watch how the PCs fight and have him face them off later. He'll see the Heat Metal, prepare himself and then face off. Maybe he'll back my Gunsmith's Kickstarter, or maybe he'll prepare a way to Misty Step out of his armor or some other protections. It would be funny as hell if the PC casted Heat Metal, then ran away from the battle and just sat hidden in his corner concentrating on his Heat Metal, giggling to himself in satisfaction, not realizing that the armor is already off and sitting at the feet of all the melee combatants as they struggle on without him. He'd be concentrating forever


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[Brandegoris]

Sounds like it's time for my Smith's Tools Expertise skilled Artificer Gunsmith to create the innovative quick-release heavy armor system. Wonder if there's Kickstarter in the Realms lol.

Anyhow, there's a Con Save against the disadvantage and there's also disrupting concentration. If these are all humanoids the players are facing, they should be smart enough to know to go after the caster first. If the players are going to do cheese like cast from the shadows and then run off and teleport because the rules say they can then have a smart a just as cheesy NPC boss stay back in the shadows to watch how the PCs fight and have him face them off later. He'll see the Heat Metal, prepare himself and then face off. Maybe he'll back my Gunsmith's Kickstarter, or maybe he'll prepare a way to Misty Step out of his armor or some other protections. It would be funny as hell if the PC casted Heat Metal, then ran away from the battle and just sat hidden in his corner concentrating on his Heat Metal, giggling to himself in satisfaction, not realizing that the armor is already off and sitting at the feet of all the melee combatants as they struggle on without him. He'd be concentrating forever


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That all makes sense. I declare you the winner of this thread.