D&D 5E Warlock in party with Quasit breaking story

[Warmaster Horus]

Given how easy it is to insert one line of dialogue about tressyms being a possibility and thereby avoid the "gotcha" factor entirely, I don't see why I'd want to do it any other way!

Diff'rent strokes. This topic is fundamentally about keeping things secret. Imp goes in, suddenly cries out in terror and is gone from warlock's perspective. Is it a, "What was THAT?" moment or a "Hmm, I guess they have Tressyms" moment?

 

[Waterbizkit]

You haven't really comprehended anything I've been saying since you first started posting, you can continue to obfuscate all you want as this will probably be my final reply to you. I am not interested in your opinion anymore. Variant human and human do not have the same ability scores so that is a false equivalency. Returning to the main point, the stat block speaks for itself.

"Variant: Familiar: The quasit can serve another creature as a familiar, forming a Telepathic Bond with its willing master. While the two are bonded, the master can sense what the quasit senses as long as they are within 1 mile of each other. While the quasit is within 10 feet of its master, the master shares the quasit's Magic Resistance trait. At any time and for any reason, the quasit can end its service as a familiar, ending the Telepathic Bond."

Why would WOTC include this if it was to just be ignored? That is really confusing.

This is from the subclass

"You learn the Find Familiar spell and can cast it as a ritual. The spell doesn’t count against your number of Spells known.
When you cast the spell, you can choose one of the normal forms for your familiar or one of the following Special forms: imp, Pseudodragon, Quasit, or Sprite.
Additionally, when you take the Attack action, you can forgo one of your own attacks to allow your familiar to make one Attack of its own with its reaction."


So......maybe you don't agree with me, but I certainly am not making things up. Good day to you.

Actually Yunru is entirely correct and you are not. The improved forms available to a Pact of the Chain Warlock and the Variant Familiar sidebars in the MM are two completely different things. The former simply allows for alternative forms the Warlock can pick from what summoning a spirit per the spell, the latter involves a pact made with an otherwise free-willed entity. The two are not the same and a frequent point of confusion when discussing this topic. And if anything your direct quote of the PHB only demonstrated you're incorrectly interpreting said rule.

As to the greater topic at hand, others have said about everything I could hope to really contribute. The main factors I always try to hammer home when these topics come up, and they do more often than you'd think, it's that: as above, always remember that the Warlocks improved familiar is not the same as the variant familiars presented in the MM... and that just because a creature cannot be seen because it's invisible does not mean it's undetectable, it still needs to make a successful stealth check to move about unnoticed.

Anyway, I'm phone posting from work, so I'll leave it at that because I can't properly proofread or edit posts when doing it like this.

 

[iserith]

Diff'rent strokes. This topic is fundamentally about keeping things secret. Imp goes in, suddenly cries out in terror and is gone from warlock's perspective. Is it a, "What was THAT?" moment or a "Hmm, I guess they have Tressyms" moment?

I think it's even more elemental than that though. There's some underlying conflicts going on with this group from what I can tell, some of it probably due to just figuring out how to play this game together. Different expectations appear to be in play and that needs resolving. In the meantime, since the players don't seem to want to be surprised (and that's an easy thing for the DM to give up in my view) and the DM has already been pushing back against the warlock class features, I would not want to be the DM who pokes the hornet's nest by taking out the familiar without suitable telegraphing of that as a possibility.

I'd still like to see what kinds of secrets are being spoiled in this game other than who's in what room of the adventure location. Which to me is just not a big deal.

 

[UnknownDyson]

Because that's for a Quasit to form a familiar bond with a master. Not for a Fey, Celestial or Fiend that assumes the form of a Quasit via Find Familiar.
I'm not obfuscating anything. The Find Familiar familiar is not a Quasit. It is a Fey, Celestial or Fiend in the form of a Quasit, with the statistics of a Quasit. Therefore the Variant doesn't apply.

This is from find familiar.
"the familiar has the Statistics of the chosen form, though it is a celestial, fey, or fiend (your choice) instead of a beast. BEAST is the important word there if the creature you summoned isn't a beast, then you don't get a choice as to what form it takes. Any other conjugations of a quasit stat block is a homebrew. I said I wasn't going to reply again but now I'm being petty, because I know I'm right. So I apologize for the pettyness.

 

[Fanaelialae]

This is from find familiar.
"the familiar has the Statistics of the chosen form, though it is a celestial, fey, or fiend (your choice) instead of a beast. BEAST is the important word there if the creature you summoned isn't a beast, then you don't get a choice as to what form it takes. Any other conjugations of a quasit stat block is a homebrew. I said I wasn't going to reply again but now I'm being petty, because I know I'm right. So I apologize for the pettyness.

You are mistaken. As waterbizkit and yunru have said, they are two separate things.

The reason find familiar references the type beast is because that is what the base spell allows. Pact of Chain creates an exception to that rule, allowing the spirit you summon to take the form of a quasits, imp, or pseudodragon. These follow the rules of a familiar, NOT the rules from the monster manual on special familiars.

Any spellcaster who encounters a free willed quasit or other, can attempt to convince that creature to serve them as a free willed familiar, which DOES follow the rules from the monster manual.

Edit
Here's a Mearls quote that backs up this claim:
http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/08/10/do-chain-pact-warlocks-get-the-familiars-magic-resistance/

 

[UnknownDyson]

Well, I'll be damned. I guess I was wrong.

 

[Anakzar]

Having an hour plus argument over a ruling I make as DM would cause me to rethink playing with that person...particularly if it was during game time. Unless you enjoy arguing and everyone else enjoys watching people argue. In your position I would set aside a few minutes before the next game session and discuss the scouting and anything else you can foresee. If you come away from this without something you and the others can play comfortably with then, its time to rethink the groups make-up. Its a game where everyone has to be having fun... if the DM is not having fun then the game is not going to last.

 

[Gwarok]

A classic DM conundrum, but one of my favorites. I really enjoy when my players get stealthy and don't just go kicking down doors. And they should be rewarded for doing so. As mentioned by several others before me, your player took that pact with the knowledge that he/she was giving up some other cool things. And if your players who have access to magic are going up against a castle full of bad guys that don't have it, they are going to be at an advantage with the tactical data. One option is to simply have all your bad guys have counters to this, which is a poor move and sounds like an option you wish to avoid. But they should have some counters every now and then, and things like Hallow, Forbiddance, and Private Sanctum allow for ongoing protection against this sort of intrusion, aren't totally out of the realm of possibility for even mid level opponents. But if they are going up against mundane enemies, they should be able to get the drop on them.

When a warlock I play with hit 13th, he selected "Etherealness", and let me tell you, that is tough. He was going into a dragon den I'd literally built off the old video game "Dragonslayer" and was able to scout the whole thing before going in. At first I thought it would be bad for the session, but turned out the players REALLY like being the ones with the initiative while stalking a dragon in it's own home. Also, he uses it to spy on the entire city he's in, all the major players. And when he does run into a room or building he can't go into because it is magically warded, he knows there is something up there and goes in physically by sneaking around, which he's also super duper good at. Basically roll with it, you're the DM. Not every fight has to be perfectly balanced, or an ideal challenge. In fact, when you have clearly intended an encounter to be that way, and the players do something clever to turn that balanced challenging fight into a one way bloodbath in their favor, they will never be happier. Players love to see shock and surprise on your face as much as you love to see it on theirs.

But I'd give them some sort of nemesis that would be able to challenge them appropriately, a recurring bad guy. Or a team of them.

 

[schnee]

I'm not actually.

I would charge that 10gp each time it dies. That cost will make the player be more careful.

Very few spells have actual monetary cost of components, and the few times I've hand-waved those away (like Red Wizard Tattoos in 3E) it turned out to make them very overpowered.

Learn from my mistakes. Charge the full cost for the components, make the player purchase and note how many casting's worth of components they have at one time, and mark them down as they re-cast.

The familiar is a great bang-for-the-buck party member, basically being an 'at will' invisible spy. There is a cost to bring one back from death, just like it takes 300gp for Revivify or 1,000gp for Resurrection.

 

[nswanson27]

Note as levels go up the potency of having an invisible scout will diminish. More things will see it, and more things will be such that the familiar can't see or detect. Also, I would say that, from the player perspective, the fun-factor of suspense/unpleasent-surprise tends to be overrated by the DM. Not saying there isn't a place for it at all, just overrated.
I would talk to your players directly about this. You might be surprised how your assumptions actually line up with their experiences.