D&D 5E Why does WotC put obviously bad or illogical elements in their adventures?

[robus]

For me the problem with Maelstrom is there isn't any clear way to exit. Sure the conch gets you there but nothing takes you back. Fine if the players wait until teleport is available but doesn't make sense for the giants without access to magic/teleport.

SKT definitely requires some playing around with it and a way for the players to get some understanding of what might be happening in the Storm King's Court. Without the ability to talk to someone in the Storm King's Court who isn't trying to kill them, players are going to have a hard time putting clues together.

Cleverly asked questions of the oracle can help. Villain monologging might help too.
Any interesting ideas to help clue the players in that there is a blue dragon in the court? This seems like a secret only 1 person knows and the players might not ask the oracle about the dragon.

I gave Iymrith blue hair as a hint to my players but they didn't make the leap. I changed her name as they already knew Iymrith's name (another silly miss by the writers to not give us her alias while in giant form) so it wouldn't be blindingly obvious.

 

[Hussar]

You don't make money on modules, good or bad - you make money on bad player-facing supplements, 'splat-books,' WWGS proved that in the 90s.

Bad is key, though, if you want something to sell in the RPG community, it's gotta be bad. Good stuff wins a 'best new game' award and disappears into obscurity.

I'd say that that bit of wisdom has been put to bed rather handily over the past few years. Paizo is pretty much based on its modules. Sure, it does splats too, but, the AP's are the bread and butter.

5e has what, 2 non-module supplements? Volo's and SCAG? But, according to the ICv2 news on the front page, D&D saw a FIFTY percent jump on sales over 2016. Here's the relavent quote:

Hasbro CEO Brian Goldner stated in an interview in particular sales of Dungeons & Dragons were up 50% from 2016, stating “Dungeons & Dragons is performing at a very high level. I think Dungeons & Dragons is back and the team has done some very expansive marketing around that.”

Not bad for a line that does pretty much no supplements at all.

 

[S'mon]

I'm definitely tracking general time like you but down to the level of an hour?

But if you don't track time, how do you know to roll wandering monster checks?!

Seriously, I think WotC assume a lot of gamer 'institutional memory' on how to manage this stuff and don't bother putting it in the DMG where it should be. At least with 4e the Encounter system divided time into handy 5 minute chunks. 5e really needs a 10 minute Turn or similar as in pre-3e D&D, for handling of dungeon exploration.

 

[Charles Rampant]

Yeah, I think that all those elements mentioned are fine. Seems like you wanted a discussion on a broad point, but picked a poor set of examples to open it with

 

[clearstream]

So I was prepping for tonight's SKT session which occurs in the Maelstrom. Great setting - looking forward to presenting it to my players and hoping they get the right feel.

However, I then read that the two guards of the throne room are stupid Hill Giants??!! And you can easily fool them into letting you pass?? WTF? The giant world is in turmoil and the Storm Giants are relying on a couple of idiots to guard their leader? Was it done for laughs?

Then there's a room with a geyser that erupts every hour (damaging a creature if they're in the room when it goes off) - but no advice on how to track time (perhaps there's something in the DMG but I don't think so...)

Then there's some sharks that are locked behind portcullises and no indication on how/when they might be released effectively making them a non-entity.

This is not the first time I've run into stuff like this. But what gives? Why are things like this put in the adventures? With all the assets they have why make these kinds of bad choices.

(The "Harshnag ex machina" was another crappy design element too IMHO).

The Hill Giants and Sharks don't bother me. I'm mostly curious about how attendees who arrive by conch get home afterward?

 

[robus]

Yeah, I think that all those elements mentioned are fine. Seems like you wanted a discussion on a broad point, but picked a poor set of examples to open it with

Yeah - they were just the latest ones I'd encountered. I didn't expect that many people would not recognize the pattern I was describing. Apparently it's normal for things to not make sense. I guess I will do more work preparing these adventures in future - but as I'm paying WotC I kind of thought that was their job?!

 

[Charles Rampant]

The Hill Giants and Sharks don't bother me. I'm mostly curious about how attendees who arrive by conch get home afterward?

Perhaps it's never come up, since they all got eaten by sharks? Probably also it's not that hard to leave Maelstrom, via conch or other tool, it's just hard to enter it.

My main problem with Maelstrom is that it feels kind of small for the capital of the Giant civilisation, but then nobody wants a dungeon map that accurately depicts an entire city, so I just accept that as a necessary price for a useable setting.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Yeah - they were just the latest ones I'd encountered. I didn't expect that many people would not recognize the pattern I was describing. Apparently it's normal for things to not make sense. I guess I will do more work preparing these adventures in future - but as I'm paying WotC I kind of thought that was their job?!

I just don't think most people consider Hill Giant guards to be a huge problem, I personally have no problems with guards not being the sharpest knives in the drawer. Easily fooled and bamboozled guards is a staple of movies and fiction.

And in the larger view for me, things making perfect sense is way behind making things fun at the game table. I never had problems with "illogical" dungeons if they were fun to run though and made for cool encounters.

 

[robus]

And in the larger view for me, things making perfect sense is way behind making things fun at the game table. I never had problems with "illogical" dungeons if they were fun to run though and made for cool encounters.

I guess I'm just a stickler for coherent world-building (and perhaps a sign that I should start home-brewing!) it drives me crazy when books and movies have illogical worlds too (moreso in books as the author has more control)

I'll stop expecting better from WotC.

 

[Eltab]

Then there's a room with a geyser that erupts every hour (damaging a creature if they're in the room when it goes off) - but no advice on how to track time (perhaps there's something in the DMG but I don't think so...)

So bring along one of those old-fashioned cooking timers (the kind you have to rotate the dial) and set it to '60 minutes' when the PCs walk into the room. If they are still in the dungeon when the IRL timer goes DING!, the geyser erupts and they get to deal with a lot of hot water all over the room.