D&D 5E Point Buy vs Rolling for Stats

[FrogReaver]

[MENTION=6801845]Oofta[/MENTION]

Just curious, Would you be opposed to rolling with the option of point buy after the roll?

 

[Jacob Marley]

We did end up dropping out of the campaign fairly quickly for a number of reasons. Which was too bad, because he was a friend and otherwise a good guy.

I mostly just bring it up as a cautionary tale. You may think "rolling is fair" because every one does it. I, and at least one other person (my wife) would disagree. The results of rolling are not fair. So if someone joins your game and says "can I use point buy instead of rolling" before rolling and then rolls poorly and repeats the request to use point buy? Don't just laugh and say "You get to play that character because rolling is fair."

Some people may enjoy playing a character with overall stats worse than your average peasant while someone else on the team plays a Mary Sue. Just accept that it's not fun for everyone.

If someone joins my game it will be after 1) that individual and I have had a conversation about D&D, our preferences, and what we each want from the game; and 2) that individual has sat through a session as an observer. I have five players. I won't bring in another player unless they are fully on board with what we do; which includes rolling for ability scores. So, if someone where to join my game and ask to use point buy after rolling, it would mean one of two things - either I failed to clearly communicate our expectations or the player joined in bad faith. In either case the correct response is not to laugh at the player, but to explain that this is how we as a group have chosen to play. I understand that not everyone will enjoy how we play and I hold no ill will toward those with other tastes. I do, however, expect people to be forthright about their tastes.

 

[ccs]

I would be OK with that as long as it is straight 4d6 drop lowest for the random generation. Start allowing people rerolls or rolling up multiple characters and then we need to talk about increasing the numbers for the point buy.

It's 4d6 keep 3 of them (you don't have to drop the lowest....) six times.
Arrange the resulting scores where you will.

All dice rolls are made in front of the group & recorded.

 

[Oofta]

It is fair. It's just not what you prefer. All it takes to be fair is for everyone to be on even footing for stat generation, and everyone is rolling dice equally. Something not required for fairness is results that are equitable. If I'm hiring for one spot and I interview 30 qualified applicants with no bias, that's fair for all of them, even if only one will be hired. Uneven results do not make the method unfair.

So if you were given a job with an average of $10.50/hour and rolled 3d6 to see what your actual salary was, would you think it was fair if you got a 3?

How would that be fair?

In addition, while life isn't fair, I don't see why a game can't be.

 

[Oofta]

[MENTION=6801845]Oofta[/MENTION]

Just curious, Would you be opposed to rolling with the option of point buy after the roll?

No, that's just practically guarantees that some PCs will be Mary Sues. The only benefit of such a system would be that there are winners and losers of the die roll lottery. I don't see the point.

 

[FrogReaver]

No, that's just practically guarantees that some PCs will be Mary Sues. The only benefit of such a system would be that there are winners and losers of the die roll lottery. I don't see the point.

So basically any difference is too much? There's no variability there even a bit?

 

[Oofta]

So basically any difference is too much? There's no variability there even a bit?

I simply don't see the point of having an uneven start that will affect characters for their entire career, I don't see any value added to the game. If you do, fine.

 

[Maxperson]

So if you were given a job with an average of $10.50/hour and rolled 3d6 to see what your actual salary was, would you think it was fair if you got a 3?

How would that be fair?

It would be fair if I and everyone else hired chose to take the job at 3d6 per hour. We all had the same chances at a 3 or 18, and will most likely roll a 10-11.

In addition, while life isn't fair, I don't see why a game can't be.

Life is fair in the way rolling is fair. I used examples.

 

[Maxperson]

I simply don't see the point of having an uneven start that will affect characters for their entire career, I don't see any value added to the game. If you do, fine.

The impact is pretty minor. Class abilities, player brains and roleplaying have a much greater impact on the game.

 

[FrogReaver]

I simply don't see the point of having an uneven start that will affect characters for their entire career, I don't see any value added to the game. If you do, fine.

You make a strong argument for no stats at all

You see, neither point buy nor standard array is fair. Why not? Because off-stats are weighted the same way as primary stats. I can't make a highly charismatic barbarian (a stat which he gets no additional benefit from) without sacrificing an equal amount in str, dex or con (all of which give him very good additional benefits). Basically, if I wanted to play a highly charismatic barbarian under point buy or standard array I would be the weak one, I would be the one with the "uneven start".