D&D 5E Counterspell - Do I know my foes' spell before I counter?

[Sadras]

To EVERYONE here who demands checks from PCs to know what spells NPCs/monsters are casting, how do you handle it from the DM side of the screen when counterspelling PC spells?

The DM is sitting with the actual knowledge of the PC spell being cast - I think there is some bias if you're going to be calling for arcana/religion checks for spells you as DM deem highly detrimental for your NPCs/monsters. How can you honestly be objectionable/fair?

 

[Harzel]

How can you honestly be objectionable?

I find it very easy to be objectionable.

 

[CrimsonCarcharodon]

Personally, I just tell my players what spell the enemy is casting. It's just easier and faster for play. If they want to Counterspell, then they know what's going to be cast. I don't want them to feel like they've wasted a Counterspell on something minor.

If I was going to force that Arcana/Religion check to know what spell was being cast, I'd just use the caster's spell save DC. I don't see why a higher level spell would be harder to recognize than a lower level spell; rather, the skill of the caster would be, in my games, the determining factor.

 

[Ilbranteloth]

To EVERYONE here who demands checks from PCs to know what spells NPCs/monsters are casting, how do you handle it from the DM side of the screen when counterspelling PC spells?

The DM is sitting with the actual knowledge of the PC spell being cast - I think there is some bias if you're going to be calling for arcana/religion checks for spells you as DM deem highly detrimental for your NPCs/monsters. How can you honestly be objectionable/fair?

As to whether the NPC would use counterspell to start with? I usually have that notated in their stats, often with conditional info.

Otherwise, my system works both ways without input from me, since it's a passive check by the NPC against the spell save DC of the caster. In other words, once the decision to counterspell is made, then the passive Arcana check applies and they can change their mind to save their spell slot. It's a question of saving a reaction or a spell slot in my approach.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Guess I'm an outlier here. I allow counter spell after I or the player announces what the spell is. The only time a check comes into play is if the spell being countered is a higher level than the slot used to counter.

Nah, that's pretty standard, as far as I can tell. Fifth edition doesn't really go for hiding relevant information from the players.

 

[Immoralkickass]

For those who can't see how stupid it is to demand checks from players just to identify spells, here's how it would go at the table...

DM: I cast a spell.

Player: What spell?

DM: Roll Arcana

Player: Ouch. Nat 1.

DM: You don't know what spell it is.

Player: I don't care. I was going to Counterspell anyway.

DM: What? That's not fair. You wouldn't do that if you knew I was casting a cantrip.

Player: You don't know that.

DM: ....Fine. I was going to cast Finger of Death. Roll another Arcana Check.

Player: Nat 20!

DM: *Sigh* You win.

Player: Yay!



A few rounds later....

DM: I cast a spell. Do you want to know what it is?

Player: off, I'm out of slots.


Moral of the story is: Don't do this, it makes Harry Potter battles too tedious and too long.

 

[Li Shenron]

I prefer to give players who chose to take proficiency in Arcana and Religion a benefit for their choices.

I gave them in other ways.

 

[bbrown12]

Okay, you absolutely convinced me. Thanks for all your comments!

From now on, I am going to tell my players which spell is being cast.

Just one last question: Do you also tell them, what level the spell has, so the players can decide whether or not they want to use a higher spell slot for Counterspell? Or do you keep this information from the players, so they don't know if they need to make a check (if the initial spell level is higher than the counterspell?

 

[Sadras]

Okay, you absolutely convinced me. Thanks for all your comments!

From now on, I am going to tell my players which spell is being cast.

Just one last question: Do you also tell them, what level the spell has, so the players can decide whether or not they want to use a higher spell slot for Counterspell? Or do you keep this information from the players, so they don't know if they need to make a check (if the initial spell level is higher than the counterspell?

Okay for this, I might request them to make a roll (arcana/religion) depending on how familiar or unfamiliar the characters are with the spell being cast. You're not playing gotcha at this point (hopefully), the cards are on the table - they recognise the spell, they just might not realise its potency.

Chances are they will be able to identify that the spell is being cast at a higher level, there will be certain inflections and what not in the casting. I wouldn't make it too difficult for them to identify, but it is combat, with many distractions, they might not know if the Sleep spell is being cast as a 3rd or 4th level spell slot, only that it is higher than 1st (until they make the roll and identify the exact slot).

 

[Immoralkickass]

Okay, you absolutely convinced me. Thanks for all your comments!

From now on, I am going to tell my players which spell is being cast.

Just one last question: Do you also tell them, what level the spell has, so the players can decide whether or not they want to use a higher spell slot for Counterspell? Or do you keep this information from the players, so they don't know if they need to make a check (if the initial spell level is higher than the counterspell?

Just tell them. Its not an easy decision to make, choosing whether to use the more common, lower level slots and risk failing, or sacrifice the more precious, higher level slots for a higher chance (or guarantee) at success.

Also, the question that usually comes before this is usually tough too: To Counterspell, or not to Counterspell?