D&D 5E Modern influences on 5e!

ART!

Deluxe Unhuman
As a visual artist and generally very visually-oriented person, I can't help but notice the change in "house art style", for lack of a better term. If you look at 3E and 4E art, there's a lot of very exaggerated, highly stylized armor and weapons. Some or much of that seems influenced by certain kinds of design sensibilities coming out of manga and anime.

Illustrations in 5E (at least in the PHB and DMG, the only books I own), however, have eschewed a lot of that in favor of a more (I don't want to say "realistic", so let's say) "naturalistic" style. The armor looks like armor people could actually wear without injuring their friends and the weapons look like things people could actually pick up. And people aren't always pictured as carrying 100 tiny, loose things on their person. ;)

I'm all for this change, because it matches my own sensibilities pretty closely. It's one of the reasons I took to 5E at all.
 

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Sacrosanct

Legend
Well, no. Or, at least, not what I meant. The thread is asking about "Modern influences on 5e."

So I don't think he's asking "What 5e influences are influencing 5e?"

I think he's looking for things more like the "Avatar: The Last Airbender" series being the inspiration(s) for the Elemental Monk subclass. Or Harry Potter books/movies supplying the concept of the "spell focus" [wands] replacing the D&D trope of requiring obscure/arcane material spell components.

That kinda thing.

So, my query is, "Where is the cut off?" How far back can we go -in time/edition/what have you- and still be considered, for the purposes of this study/discussion, "modern?"

OH, I see now.
 

G

Guest 6801328

Guest
World of Warcraft. And only World of Warcraft.

Oh, wait....I thought you said 4e. Sorry, my bad.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
So, my query is, "Where is the cut off?" How far back can we go -in time/edition/what have you- and still be considered, for the purposes of this study/discussion, "modern?"
I'd say the end of the TSR era, or the 20th century, for round-number convenience. Of course, that'd mean Xena wasn't 'modern,' which is maybe pushing it...

...then again, D&D has always tended to lag pop culture, so maybe we could cut off RPG/gaming/hobby influences at the end of the TSR era, but cut off pop culture influences after the 80s?
Or Harry Potter books/movies supplying the concept of the "spell focus" [wands] replacing the D&D trope of requiring obscure/arcane material spell components.
Making it popular enough to finally bring in the trope outside of magic items, anyway. Both stage magicians and hermetic practitioners had used wands (and the latter, rods & staves) forever - heck using a rod to do magic goes back to Moses. D&D adapted ancient ritual-magic tools (Rod/staff/wand/scroll/almulets/talismans/athame/etc/etc) as magic items with power w/in themselves (metered, quantitfied charges, even). That was a typicaly irreverent, 70s kinda thing to do, IMHO.
So Rowling has her wizards using wands as tools - not quite as people have been doing for centuries, but in a rather silly point-and-shoot way - and D&D finally relents and gives us Wand implements and, now, wands as a spell focus? OK.


Illustrations in 5E (at least in the PHB and DMG, the only books I own), however, have eschewed a lot of that in favor of a more (I don't want to say "realistic", so let's say) "naturalistic" style.
More like Elmore's illos for 2e, for instance. Not realistic, in the sense of historical accuracy, just less dramatic or stylized.
 
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Remathilis

Legend
This is a very tricky question to navigate.

When Dave and Gary were making D&D, they were mashing together elements of the fantasy they knew; Tolkien, Vance, Moorcock, Howard, etc. Some of the stuff is quite literally "serial-numbers filed off" stolen, while others were more in spirit of. Either way, since then D&D has grown into its own genre of fantasy, and as it does the "serial numbers filed off" approach has lessened. I mean, the 2e ranger was (supposedly) modeled off a popular character from a D&D novel, rather than the novel character the 1e ranger was based off. A lot of the more modern elements then tend to come from the ideas from D&D itself rather than continuing to absorb fantasy novels, movies, and games and mix them in. For example, the dragonborn was an idea spawned not from some interesting draconic race in fantasy but from a desire to allow a "PC dragon" based character. (In fact, the closest example of draconic humanoids in popular fantasy lit would be draconians, which were designed for... D&D!) Aasimar, Tieflings and Genasi all hail from Planescape and a desire to have "PC half-outsiders". Warlocks hail from playing a spellcaster with alternate mechanics than the wizard, sorcerer exists for much the same reason.

Ironically, I'd say Pathfinder is much closer these days to the spirit of "file the serial number off" style of content acquisition than D&D is. The Pathfinder bestiaries have all sorts of stats for more "modern" monsters like Mothman, Chupacabra, or Nosferatu, and has experimented more with popular archetypes from fantasy having classes built around them (such as Summoner being heavily influenced by Final Fantasy style summoners).
 

DwynnsPlace

First Post
D&D Genre' A comment and reminder about D&D and the limits we chose to play by.

1: Player and DM coordinate to establish understanding of the general idea of the campaign setting.

2: Discussions revolve around players and DM's to establish PC character concepts, development options such as, whether or not to swap feats with skill points, professions or any other character development background points and utility of printed material for character individualization such as UA, Sage, Dragon Magazine ect....

3: Character reviews should be done before game night and level, class, kit, professions, equipment and general PC concepts should be hashed out beforehand.

4: PC's should be developed fully with background, interests, motivations, Ideology, Flaws, Feats or not, Total character points for skills and abilities as well.

5: If your group is Adventure League you can forget most of this as AL requires exacting steadfast restrictions and adherance to listed, rules and Authorized content. (define Authorized)

6: If your group is open to flexible use of "Approved D&D gaming Material such as Sage, UA, Handbooks, and any other D&D concept material approved through the ages or agrees to follow specific "generational" D&D such as AD&D, 2nd Edit., 3.5, 4, 5e, then all the better for you and your group.
Remember, most of those groups will not be able to play that developed character in an AL tournament...too much diversity for AL new generation players to grasp. Also too much data for most new players to be aware of.

7: For those seeking to have a good time playing in a campaign My advice is to listen to the DM, get a really good feel for his concept and interpretation of his world, create a character that fits his world and that fits your idea of a fun character and work with the other players to have fun.

8: For those players that want to mini-max and select only abilities, feats, skills, that might contribute to an OP idea of a character, your playing the wrong game.

FOR EVERYONE:
pg 6 AD&D 2nd edit. Players Handbook
"Everything in the ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS system has purpose; most of what is found herein is essential to the campaign, and those sections which are not --such as sub-classes of characters, psionics, and similar material -- are clearly labeled as optional for inclusion. What is here is, hopefully, presented in as logical a sequence as possible, clearly, understandable, and with as few ambiguities as could be managed. Many readers will want more material. There is a wealth of commercial and fan material available for fulfilling such needs. Similarly, even the most important material herein can be altered and bent to suit the needs of individual campaigns. Where possible true guidelines have been laid down to provide the barest of frameworks for those areas of the campaign which should be most unusual and unique. Read the work (or both works if you are the DM) through and assess for yourself what ADVANCED D&D really is. I am convinced that it does for old D&D + suppliments what GREYHAWK did for D&D when it first appeared, and then some."
~ Gary Gygax ~ @1978 -- TSR Games.

Pg 2 ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS DMG Forward:
This book holds much in store for you as a DM -- it is your primary tool in constructing your own "world", or melieu. It contains a wealth of material, and combined with other works of ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS ( the MONSTER MANUAL and PLAYERS HANDBOOK) gives you all the information you need to play AD&D. But, as always, one more thing is needed -- your imagination. Use the written material as your foundation and inspiration, then explore the creative possibilities you have in your own mind to make your game something special.
~Mike Carr~ TSR Games and Rules Editor 16 May 1979

pg 3 ADVANCED DUNGEON & DRAGONS UNEARTHED ARCANA Preface in parte'"
"The AD&D @ Game system is dynamic. It grows and changes and expands. Our universe does all this, and so too the multiverse of this game system. The description and definition of an infinite multiverse must necessarily be done piecemeal -- adding new discoveries as they come to light, expanding horizons as the sum total of our past knowledge allows. As the original volumes of the game system (monster manual, Players Handbook, and Dungeon Masters Guide) have altered from their first editions, so the game has changed in form and substance. This new material grew from my own campaign, articles published in DRAGON@ Magazine, and input from many Dungeon Masters and Players also. The book has a single purpose: Unearthed Arcana brings new dimensions to the AD&D game system. The compiled material which lies herein offers fresh new approaches to play without materially affecting any ongoing campaign adversely,"
This work does not alter former "Laws of the multiverses," but it does open insights and vistas beyond those previously understood and seen. All the participants of a campaign will find this material of greatest interest and benefit to them. Dungeon Masters will discover new sub-races and their inter-relationships, new deity models for non-humans, and much in the way of magic -- a trove of spells and items indeed! Players, of course, benefit from all of that and more. There are new horizons for demi-human characters, new professional callings, new weapons, new approaches to just about everything. Yes, some of the material has appeared previously, but here it is carefully revised, edited, and compiled so as to change it from a possible insertion to an integral part of a vital campaign. There are new choices, new possibilities, new opportunities, and new ideas laid out before you. Best of all, these rest upon the solid foundation of the AD&D game system -- the most widely accepted and played role-playing game in the world.
~GARY GYGAX~ May 1, 1985

Why did I include these quotes from the AD&D books?
As a teenager in the late 70's and early 80's I found the game and the stories I played in, quite exhilarating and the DM's I played with had such imagination that I was entranced in the D&D genre' from then on. Through the decades, I found as Gary is quoted, that there truly were new insights, horizons where crossed and fully explored. New concepts and ideas developed. Laylines, Nexus, wild magic and magic in many forms, Humanoids, Of which I love to play and challenge players with. The title of the books may have altered, the artwork may have developed and improved (Greatly) but the core concepts of the game are solid. The rules are guidelines for play, The books are a base or foundation to work from but in no way the only interpretation out there. The laws of the multiverse are vague, limitless, flexible and malleable. The dimensions of the game are limitless and can be divergent. House rules can be as limited or flexible as a DM and or his players decide.

New generation players, those playing in say the past 4 or 5 years, the information I provided above is a guide and nothing more, play as you and your friends like.

Lastly, the D&D genre' game/s is/are to be fun for everyone.

Hope my diatribe was not too severe.

DM: 8318686838
~Dave~ AKA David Niewoehner
 

DwynnsPlace

First Post
Please don't forget the Dragonlance Draconic races.
Dragon Council boxed set for stand alone adventuring and or utility in any other DM/GM setting.

Dragon Born, Draconic, Half Dragons and much more....imagination is beautiful.

~DAVE~
 

hawkeyefan

Legend
The shift in entertainment from episodic to more long form storytelling seems to have influenced the rise of the adventure path as opposed to a string of more self contained adventures. Seasons rather than episodes, trilogies rather than single movies. Adventure Paths instead of modules.

Now, it seems that PCs spend their entire career facing one threat over a longer period of time rather than many threats one after the other.
 


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