D&D 5E New Metamagic - Uplift

[Blue]

More thought experiment than anything else. This breaks down the paradigms of highest level spell slot, but in a way that seems accepted for multiclass balacne - having higher level slots but only being able to use them to upcast, not knowing higher level spells.

Uplift Spell
When you cast a spell that gives greater effect using a higher level slot, you may take the next highest effect. If this is above the highest level you may cast, it costs 2 SP per spell level gained. If it is a level you may cast, it costs 1 SP per spell level gained.

Example 1:
Fireball gains 1d6 per higher slot level. You could cast it 1 higher slot (and ONLY one slot up). If you can cast 4th level spells, this costs 1 SP, if you can't this costs 2.

Example 2:
A Sorcerer/Warlock cast Hex with a 1st level slot. They can Uplift it to a 3rd level slot (the next spell level that does soemthing different). They couldn't uplift it to 5th. This raises 2 levels, so it's either 4 or 2 SP.

Example 3:
The sorcerer/warlock has gained some level s and casts Hex from a 3rd level slot. Uplift now would go to the next point, which is us if using a 5th level spell.

So, would you use this at your table? What do you like? What would you change? Comparing agains the opportunity cost of another metamagic, is it powerful enough/to powerful? How can it be abused?

 

[Quartz]

I don't like the idea of being able to cast spells at levels unavailable to you. I also don't like the fixed price for using a higher level slot. Think about a 15th level sorceror using a 9th level slot to cast a 7th level spell for 3 points. And have you considered the impact on spells like Globe of Invulnerability?

 

[jaelis]

I think it should cost 1 PP per level increased, and also that you simply can't increase the level above the highest you can cast. With those restrictions I don't see a need to cap it at the next-highest effect.

For magic missile if you are level 9 you can upcast the spell to a 5th level effect for 4 PP. In comparison, converting a level 1 slot to PP and then creating a 5th level slot would cost 6 PP. So you are getting something for your meta magic, but it doesn't seem like too much.

 

[Fanaelialae]

It could be fairly potent. For something like fireball, it's a fairly meh option. Not bad but not amazing. However, an 11th level sorcerer could spend 6 SP to uplift Mass Suggestion to last a year and a day (as opposed to the normal limit at that level of 24 hours). That's a substantial difference, and you definitely want to be certain you want to open up options like that before you make this available.

 

[Stalker0]

This was something I was considering as well for my next game.

I think we can use heighten spell as a model for this, and simplify this up a bit.

Uplift

Spend 3 sp when casting a spell. The spells effect is increased by 1 without consuming a higher level spell slot

 

[77IM]

For spells of a level you can cast, why not just convert sorcery points into spell slots? This ability is effectively the same as that one, but mathematically better.

For spells of a level you can't cast, this is a somewhat overpowered option. Many spells, at higher levels, are only really distinguished by damage, or by whatever it is they gain per level. So you're effectively letting players cast using higher-level slots. That seems a bit broken. Especially when combined with Empowered Spell.

 

[Croesus]

At first glance, this is not overpowered. Upcasting is generally a weak option overall, except for specific spells. (Upcasting bless to cover more people is great. Upcasting fireball for just an extra 2d6 damage...not so much.) Your option is cheaper than creating a spell slot, but that's okay as I'm not convinced that using SP to create spell slots is a good use of SP. You would need to go through the entire spell list to be sure there aren't some spells that would suddenly become problematic.

Overall, seems fine to me.

 

[Blue]

For spells of a level you can cast, why not just convert sorcery points into spell slots? This ability is effectively the same as that one, but mathematically better.

For spells of a level you can't cast, this is a somewhat overpowered option. Many spells, at higher levels, are only really distinguished by damage, or by whatever it is they gain per level. So you're effectively letting players cast using higher-level slots. That seems a bit broken. Especially when combined with Empowered Spell.

This is the part I was going back and forth about, let me talk out my thinking and see if anything works out well. But let me mentions that you can only apply a single metamagic to a spell, so you never have to worry about this combining with empower.

My first thought is that you can't go over your level. But then it occurs to me that will make the use of this metamagic into a rare corner case. If you want a 2nd level spell at 3rd level and you have 3rd level slots, you can just cast using that slot. If you don't but have time, you can make the slot with the slot you were about to use and roughly the SP you were about to use. It really became just "I'm out of those slots and don't have time to make one" which is rare enough that it's not worth the opportunity cost of missing out on a different Metamagic option.

So I thought about going above the top level. Thinking about multiclassed casters, they aren't just as good a caster as a single class of either of them because their spells known are lower, but they are given the slots of a single classed caster. So it's there are no spells known for the higher level and you can only use them to upcast that really is the balance point.

But just in case, I also put in the limitation about only one bump. I wouldn't want a mid-level caster blowing a bunch of SP and bringing a spell up by 4 or 5 levels - that is too much nova ability. So single bump only. And that gave me the ability to make sure it's at least a meaningful bump, for the few spells you can upcast but don't give an advance at every level, to keep the metamagic relevant.

I think these comments also address what [MENTION=40552]Quartz[/MENTION] and [MENTION=60210]jaelis[/MENTION] were replying as well.

 

[mellored]

The idea is good. Though I wouldn't have the extra cost thing.

IMO:
1sp to raise it 1 level, 3 sp for 2 levels, and 6 sp for 3 levels.

If someone wants to cast a level 12 fireball, then go ahead.

 

[Fanaelialae]

This is the part I was going back and forth about, let me talk out my thinking and see if anything works out well. But let me mentions that you can only apply a single metamagic to a spell, so you never have to worry about this combining with empower.

I believe empower is the only metamagic that ignores the one metamagic per spell rule. That said, an empowered 14d6 fireball isn't altogether that much damage (probably somewhere around 60 damage, after rerolls). That's not poor damage by any means, but given that you're expending a 3rd level spell slot and 7 or more SP to do so, it's not particularly amazing either. It's a moderate boost to nova DPR that can't be sustained for any serious length of time.