D&D 5E Stalker0's Alternate Arcane Casters - Sorceror

Stalker0

Legend
While I really like 5th editions, arcane casters, they aren't perfect to my eyes. One thing is I think the classes are not distinctive enough.

In this version, I am focusing each class on a specific theme.

Wizard - Breadth of spells. Wizards know a lot of spells, and always have the right spell for the job.
Sorceror - Spell power. No one is stronger at casting spells. A spell in a sorceror's hands is just best than any other class.
Warlock - Spell endurance. Warlock's pact gives them a constant flowing source of power. This allows to cast spells more often than any other class.

In this thread we take a look at the sorceror. This sorceror is about raw power and control with their spells. They don't have the endurance of casting the new warlock does, nor the breadth of spell availability and use of the wizard. But when this sorc casts, you know you are getting the best version of that spell possible.

Stalker0's Alternate Sorceror

All class abilities are the same as the base sorceror. With the following exceptions:

Flexible Casting: Removed. Replaced by - Blood Magic: As a bonus action, the Sorceror may use one hit dice to gain 1 sorcery point. Any excess points are lost after a long rest.


Metamagic: Gain 2 at 3rd level. Gain an additional one at 7th, 10th, 13th, and 17th levels. Metamagic can be stacked, unless it says otherwise.

Careful Spell: Add this: You automatically save against the effect of the spell. If the spell does half damage, they take no damage. (the whole point is to be careful, not to still fry your friends with half damage).

Distant Spell: Add this: A spell with a range of self gains a range of touch. (there are shockingly few touch spells in the sorceror's arsenal. This gives more spells to use it on, and gives it a needed power boost).

Empowered Spell: Replaced with: Consistent Spell: Spend 1 sorcery point. Instead of rolling dice, use half the dice result (round up). So a d8 = 5. If the spell has any further dice rolls, they are rolled as normal. You cannot use this ability with other metamagic abilities. (the base ability is actually quite weak, and requires a lot of fiddly rerolling. This ability both speeds up the game and gives a definite advantage).

Extended Spell: Change to: Enduring Spell: A spell with duration of 1 minute or longer is doubled, to a maximum of 24 hours. Any roll to dispel or counterspell the spell has disadvantage. (Added just a little extra oomph, I don't find this metadata gets a lot of general use).

Heightened Spell: Leave as is

Quickened Spell: Leave as is

Subtle Spell: Add: This spell cannot be counterspelled. (a lot of DMs rule this way already, just making it explicit).

Twinned Spell: Leave as is

(New) Inner Spell: Spend sorcery points. For every point you spend, 100 GP of material components are ignored for the spell. (I wanted to give a sorceror a way to be truly 100% self reliant on their own power to cast spells).


Sorcerers Mastery: Replaces Sorcerous Restoration. A 20th level sorceror may reduce the total sorcery point cost on a spell by 1 (minimum 0).


Class Summary: This sorc cannot trade spells and sorcery points back in forth, instead using their own inner endurance (hit dice) to gain more points. In general, metadata is improved, most abilities are increased, and stacking is much more liberal now. And now the 20th level ability is truly worthy of the ultimate bastion of arcane power.
 

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There are aspect of this that I like, and aspects of this that I dislike.

Things I like:

-Careful Spell: I already house ruled this to be like this. It just makes sense to me.

-Distant Spell: This is an interesting twist that I actually hadn't thought of. I haven't examined how this might change spell casting strategy, but I think its a cool move.

-Consistent Spell: I love this. It definitely speeds up gameplay and has value to make sure you know exactly how the spell is going to go off. I still think Empower spell has a place in metamagic though. I've personally based it around one of the Loremaster abilities, allowing a spell to add 2d10 damage to every target of the spell.

-Enduring Spell: I like the addition.

-Subtle Spell: Good clarification.

Things I am not really digging or unsure about:

-Blood Magic: I get what you are trying to do here, and it certainly makes sense. Sorcery points are already roughly equivalent to Arcane Focus for the Wizard, but also worse because Sorcery Points are a resource for metamagic and spell slots, whereas a Wizard is able to focus on just the spell slots. But I don't like the idea of using Hit Dice for 2 reasons.

1) You only recover half of spent Hit Dice per long rest.

2) Now you are having to choose between healing yourself or casting spells.

That's not good for the longevity of the sorcerer, and ensures that the sorcerer is going to be very low on hit dice because of the slow recharge rate and multiple abilities using it as a resource.

My way to address this was to make Flexible Casting completely reversible. If you pay 2 points to create a 1st level spell slot, you should get 2 points when you consume a 1st level spell slot. If you consume a 5th level spell slot for spell points, you should get back just as many as it costs.

This ensures that a Sorcerer will be able to sacrifice lower level spell slots to empower spells with metamagic, while maintaining their overall number of spell slots in comparison to a wizard using Arcane Recovery.

-Inner Spell: I'm just not sure about this one. But then, I haven't played a high level sorcerer or ever been in a game that tracked costly components all that hard.

-Sorcerous Restoration: I'm not a fan of this ability, but only because I have a different philosophy regarding Capstones. A Capstone should be game-breaking. You are an epic level character. If a Cleric can always count on at least one personal favor from their deity once a week, if a Wizard can cast second level spells like cantrips, and if Paladins become living avatars embodying their oaths, then the sorcerous capstone should be equally exciting.

Personally, I have written up this as a potential capstone replacement for the sorcerer:

Limitless Font of Magic
At 20th level, whenever you begin your turn with 0 sorcery points, you immediately gain 3 sorcery points.

My reasoning is that you always have a 1st or 2nd level spell slot to cast if you run out of spell slots, or you always have some spell points to use metamagic. A level 20 sorcerer should ALWAYS be using metamagic. This allows them to do so with impunity.
 

I like it. I also like getting rid of trading slots for sorcery points and visa versa, it just puts to great a strain on Sorcery Points as a resource. I really like the increased access to meta magic and adjustments to meta magic abilities. Trading hit dice for Sorcery points is going to hurt though.


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-Blood Magic: I get what you are trying to do here, and it certainly makes sense. Sorcery points are already roughly equivalent to Arcane Focus for the Wizard, but also worse because Sorcery Points are a resource for metamagic and spell slots, whereas a Wizard is able to focus on just the spell slots. But I don't like the idea of using Hit Dice for 2 reasons.

1) You only recover half of spent Hit Dice per long rest.

2) Now you are having to choose between healing yourself or casting spells.

That's not good for the longevity of the sorcerer, and ensures that the sorcerer is going to be very low on hit dice because of the slow recharge rate and multiple abilities using it as a resource.
Not sure what I make out of this. To me, this reads as if you're playing 4th edition where you can't be healed without spending your own hit dice - perhaps I'm mistaken?

(The obvious solution a Sorcerer that's actually playing 5th edition - or 3rd for that matter - can do is heal up using potions or friendly clerics. And problem goes poof. In other words, I think you overrate the significance of HD quite a bit)
 

I like it. I also like getting rid of trading slots for sorcery points and visa versa, it just puts to great a strain on Sorcery Points as a resource. I really like the increased access to meta magic and adjustments to meta magic abilities. Trading hit dice for Sorcery points is going to hurt though.
I like the general idea too.

With the more powerful metamagics you really need a sorcery point cost that's significant, so hit dice certainly fill that criteria.

Generally, I'm not keen on WotC's original idea "let's make metamagic exclusive to the sorcerer because we couldn't come up with anything else to replace the class' original 3E schtick of spontaneous casting", but I'm prepared to have that ship sailed for the purpose of this thread...

...still:

Edit: this is addressed to [MENTION=5889]Stalker0[/MENTION]
Why keep the idea you start with only a few of your metamagic options?

Since the list of options isn't layered or priced, all it means is forcing every sorcerer to take the same old metamagics at start (twinning for example).

What would your class lose by saying "every metamagic is available right off the bat"?

To me this would at most mean that you'd see the occasional Careful or Subtle during the low levels where everybody plays. Hardly game destroying. In fact, it would add quite a lot of distinction to the class right when it needs it.

One option is: at 3rd level you gain two random metamagics. (I think you have nine?) Then you get to pick two more.

This ensures everybody gets just as many as they do today, and does get to pick their favorites. But it also means they might be tempted to use their randoms (which might otherwise never have seen any play). It also means they might go for an option they would never have otherwise taken, simply because their randoms are good enough (maybe I didn't get Twinned but I got Quicken, so that's good enough for me to go off on a tangent and pick Consistent and Enduring as my choice picks just to try the new ones out?)

Then you gain two more at 7th and 10th level: first one random, then one free pick.

Adding a low-level ability at 17th level (remember, this would be - by definition - the least interesting in to boot!) is just a joke or insult so we'll simply be content with saying "you gain every metamagic option at 13th level".
 

Flexible Casting: Removed. Replaced by - Blood Magic: As a bonus action, the Sorceror may use one hit dice to gain 1 sorcery point. Any excess points are lost after a long rest.

Is there some hard math behind this? Because that exchange rate seems absolutely abysmal. Both in terms of HD into SP and on the action economy.

Also, Flexible Casting was one of the few things I rather liked about the Sorcerer, even if it was a kludge for replacing a proper spell point system. In fact, it's the ability that lets you create additional spell slots in the first place. Is that intentional? Removing the ability to generate new spell slots altogether?
 

I've wondered what the effect would be if you gave sorcerors access to all metamagic options at level 3. I think it would give them a lot more versatility. It wouldn't really make them any more powerful because they still have the same number of sordcery points.

If anything, it'd increase the temptation to use sorcery points quicker and more often.
 

Is there some hard math behind this? Because that exchange rate seems absolutely abysmal. Both in terms of HD into SP and on the action economy.
Not a reply, more a comment:

The action economy seems fine. The sorq can convert as many hit dice she wants before a fight after all.

It's only in a sudden development the sorq is limited in how fast she can get more sorq points.

He did write the points last until your next long rest, so there's no reason you can't convert them at your leisure between encounters.

If you could ONLY convert HD into SP during combat rounds where you have better things to do with your bonus action then, yeah.


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I've wondered what the effect would be if you gave sorcerors access to all metamagic options at level 3. I think it would give them a lot more versatility. It wouldn't really make them any more powerful because they still have the same number of sordcery points.

If anything, it'd increase the temptation to use sorcery points quicker and more often.
Yup.

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Not sure what I make out of this. To me, this reads as if you're playing 4th edition where you can't be healed without spending your own hit dice - perhaps I'm mistaken?

(The obvious solution a Sorcerer that's actually playing 5th edition - or 3rd for that matter - can do is heal up using potions or friendly clerics. And problem goes poof. In other words, I think you overrate the significance of HD quite a bit)

No, its not that like in 4E. But in games like mine, where Hit Dice are used frequently for healing since we don't have a dedicated healer in the party, you run into the same problem as Sorcery Points originally had. Multiple class abilities are now using the same resource pool. And it's made even worse because Hit Dice recharge at a slower rate than other resources.

Sorcery Points are supposed to at the same time be equivalent to Arcane Recovery, providing the Sorcerer and Wizard with roughly the same number of spell slots per day, while also providing a route for powering metamagic. But if the sorcerer is also using that resource to power metamagic (something the Wizard doesn't need to worry about), then the Sorcerer is not able to cast as often as the Wizard. And if the sorcerer is converting those sorcery points to spell slots, then they aren't using their signature ability as often as they should. So a sorcerer at low levels is gimped, and at higher levels is forced to burn lower level spell slots to keep up. Flexible casting is necessary to give the Sorcerer something to improve management of spell slots and metamagic, but is also not in and of itself sufficient as it is written.

So the best solution that I see is to give the Sorcerer more Sorcery Points. You can either do it outright by increasing their pool (recognizing that Sorcery Points need a bit more to power both an equivalent to Arcane Recovery and Metamagic), or increase how much they get by burning a spell. Allowing the use of Hit Dice to increase sorcery points is a way to increase the pool, but you really will only get 1/4 of your level worth of sorcery point per day due to the slower recharge rate and assuming you need to use at least some of them to supplement to heal as well (assuming you are adventuring without expending most resources before a second long rest, which happens quite a lot in the games I play).
 
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