Homebrew campaign help please (long)

[Not a Hobbit]

Could use some help with my campaign. I apologize in advance for the length (and the rambling)

1. The first arc involves the party rescuing Princess Plot Hook from the evil cultist who wants to sacrifice her. But after she is saved (hopefully) they need to find a place to hide her (she cannot be returned to the palace for ... reasons). I want to make them think/work for it, and not just drop her in the first place they find. But the last time I ran this, after putting a couple of speed bumps in their plans, I got the feeling that the players believed that I wanted them to keep PPH with the group.

So my question is, what are some ways that I can convey to the players that I have no preference whether PPH stays or goes, as long as it makes sense? Short of coming right out and saying it OOC.

2. Later, the party will assist PPH in regaining the throne. They will have to travel across the city (pop. 3 million) to the noble district/palace in the mountains. None of the characters has a connection to the city.

So my question is, what are some scenarios in the big city which would take some time, but still be related to the main quest of getting to the palace? I'm not looking for side quests, or random encounters. More like "things that will help assist the party in accomplishing the goal."

3. So there's this "Dragon Father" God, who was banished to the great void long ago. The gates to the void were sealed with the blood of the hundreds that died defeating him. Late in the campaign, the gates will (may) be opened with the blood of the Dragon Father's followers. This will set off a series of quests to find pieces of a great chain which will bind the DF, and a stone which will teleport him back to the great void.

So my question is, how can the gate be resealed? The first time, it took hundreds of dead to accomplish. My fear is that the players will feel that the only way to seal the gate is to sacrifice themselves. Are there any other ways? And how can this be conveyed to the players

Again, I apologize for the length of the post. Any help anyone can give would be greatly appreciated. I'm happy to provide more information (MORE?!?) or to clarify if needed. Thanks.

--Scott

 

[Nagol]

When I saw "long" I expected 1000+ words, not such a tiny screed! Our styles are different, but I'll try to help.

0) You are plotting much further ahead than I ever would. What if the PCs don't want to help PPH after making certain she's safe?

1) As a DM, I'm always disinterested in player plans and actions (that's disinterested -- not uninterested). Even though we've been gaming together in some cases for decades of time, I still have to tell some members of the group that no, the current challenge isn't "supposed to" end in a particular way. Players are always looking for clues and the communication medium has a narrow bandwidth. So simply tell them that how they deal with PPH is their business, but the environment may have other ideas.

2) Why will the PCs help the PPH regain the throne? What will they care about at that time? Threaten/attack those principles as they cross the city. There are several different possibilities for city adventures; most involve having PCs that care about the city or having the residents care about the PCs. If the PCs are uncaring and unknown to the city and they simply have to walk the tens of miles from one end to the other, it shouldn't be a problem for them. Some plausible things include literal roadblocks are those in charge attempt to keep civil order, someone recognizing the PPH (assuming the PCs are reckless enough to not disguise her) thus triggering attempted kidnapping/assassination/rescue from PCs/whatever, and the PPH seeing an atrocity/injustice/someone close in danger and refusing to go forward until it is dealt with.

3) As a PC, I'd be looking for other victims volunteers to seal the doorway. Maybe the blood of an appropriately scary dragon is sufficient. Alternatively, the reigning gods could pitch in with something less bloodthirsty.

 

[DEFCON 1]

As far as Point 1 is concerned... I think the easiest way is to just not make her your standard damsel-in-distress Princess Plot Point, but rather a character with needs/desires/plots of her own. If she's grabbed "just because the plot needed her to be", and she can't be returned to the castle "just because the plot needed her to be" and she can't just be dumped off at the first house they come to "just because the plot needed her to be"... you should make a reason why Princess Plot Point doesn't want any of those things to happen. Give her the agency to have her own story and her own plot, and that will explain why those others things can't occur.

So far you have something going on at the castle that she cannot/should not return to. So make her aware of it (or at least have an inkling). This is why she doesn't want to be brought back after she is rescued-- she can just tell the party she knows she isn't safe there. As far as why she was grabbed? Perhaps she knows what the cult is doing and was gathering information for herself (or perhaps a secretive do-good-group she works with) and the cult found her and grabbed her. That at least gives her agency and is not just "Well, we cultists need to sacrifice somebody so we'll grab the princess because it makes our story seem important and thus the PCs will follow our breadcrumb." And then if/when the PCs rescue her from the cultists... she then can tell them straight away "I can't go back to the castle, but I also have my own stuff to do so I'm not going to just follow you around."

If you do that... then you have also seeded more story hooks where the PCs might want to follow HER (and/or the group she works with) because they find out what's going on in the kingdom and what this group is doing.

Basically... your answers can all come down to "Have the NPCs that are a part of the plot BE characters that a part of the plot, and not just MacGuffins." Because otherwise you as the DM have to talk to the players out-of-character to give the information the NPCs could have easily given to the PCs in-character.

 

[jasper]

1. Occasionally they will not get the clue and you will have to tell them .
2. Requires the group bites on this plot hook. Also 3 million or 300K how are you going to convey to your players the city is basically, LA, New York, Paris, London, etc. Goal posts adventures. Which of the castle guards are on PPH side, which are not. Does PPH know of the back door to the castle? Which of the high nobles/factions are on PPH side. Which could be bribed or what do the pcs have to do to get the faction on PPH side. What is the real reason PPH is out on her bum?
3. Foreshadow this. Players sacrificing their pcs.” I backstab the thief and use his blood to reseal the seal”, screams the paladin. Resealing, hmm take the artifacts 3 which are I don’t, Tomorrow and third base. You will need player feedback on this.
You sound like you have this great movie plot. The bad thing is, the players will not follow the script unless they want to.

 

[Not a Hobbit]

Thank you for the responses so far. Some clarification:

-Yes, I do plan quite far in advance. I'm a decent improviser, but far better at the tactical level than the strategic level.

-These are contingency plans. The only thing that literally needs to happen is that the characters agree to escort PPH and her guardian to a certain location (I guess they can not agree to do this, of course. This would effectively end the campaign) If they decide to abandon her to the cultist and go off on their merry way, they could do that. Saving her and ensuring her safety seems to be the most logical course of action for a Good party, so I want to be prepared.

-PPH knows that she cannot go back to the palace. If it were up to her, she would stay with the group (did I mention that she's 12 years old? So not really able to go off by herself). I just don't want the players to feel that they are being railroaded into keeping her around.

-Likewise with the sealing the gate. Blood may be needed, but I want them to have options other than having to use their own. They may come up with something, and that would be great. But if not, I wanted to be able to hint at some other options.

-#2. I have plenty of urban adventures and random encounters. If the characters visit at some time other than for this specific reason (helping PPH take the throne), then I have plenty for them to do. I am mainly looking for some things which would be directly or indirectly helpful/hindering to the fulfillment of that task. I don't want them to get bogged down in the city when they would rather be making their way to the palace. If that makes any sense.

--Scott

 

[Quickleaf]

Could use some help with my campaign. I apologize in advance for the length (and the rambling)

1. The first arc involves the party rescuing Princess Plot Hook from the evil cultist who wants to sacrifice her. But after she is saved (hopefully) they need to find a place to hide her (she cannot be returned to the palace for ... reasons). I want to make them think/work for it, and not just drop her in the first place they find. But the last time I ran this, after putting a couple of speed bumps in their plans, I got the feeling that the players believed that I wanted them to keep PPH with the group.

So my question is, what are some ways that I can convey to the players that I have no preference whether PPH stays or goes, as long as it makes sense? Short of coming right out and saying it OOC.

A trusted NPC or the Princess herself emphasizes the need to hide her somewhere safe, and may offer suggestions such as the country estate of a favored guard captain who lost his post during the coup in which the Princess' father lost power.

2. Later, the party will assist PPH in regaining the throne. They will have to travel across the city (pop. 3 million) to the noble district/palace in the mountains. None of the characters has a connection to the city.

So my question is, what are some scenarios in the big city which would take some time, but still be related to the main quest of getting to the palace? I'm not looking for side quests, or random encounters. More like "things that will help assist the party in accomplishing the goal."

As an aside, your demographics look odd...a city of *three million*? Wow, that's bigger than any D&D metropolis and several D&D nations.

There is lingering support for the Princess in the city, but it's hidden and PCs need to be circumspect about seeking supporters out as Secret Police are on the lookout for "traitors" & may even pose as false rebels in a sting operation. One example would be Linden Armsbury, a humble provisioner for the city guard who secretly provides support to a cell of rebels operating in the city's underbelly; with Linden as an ally, the PCs could gain a way to replenish restricted items (depending on the current regime), send messages to the rebels or arrange a meeting, or report on the city guard's activities. If they manage to convince his "brainwashed" nephew to leave the city guard or otherwise get the youth to safety, Linden could even be convinced to poison the soup in the guard barracks.

3. So there's this "Dragon Father" God, who was banished to the great void long ago. The gates to the void were sealed with the blood of the hundreds that died defeating him. Late in the campaign, the gates will (may) be opened with the blood of the Dragon Father's followers. This will set off a series of quests to find pieces of a great chain which will bind the DF, and a stone which will teleport him back to the great void.

So my question is, how can the gate be resealed? The first time, it took hundreds of dead to accomplish. My fear is that the players will feel that the only way to seal the gate is to sacrifice themselves. Are there any other ways? And how can this be conveyed to the players

Murals in every temple or hall of high office should depict scenes of this mythic event. The Binding of the Dragon Father should have various interpretations and versions, depending on the faith/race/culture. In some, the one who bound him may be portrayed as a hero who gave meaning to the deaths of the hundreds of brave warriors who died in combat against the Dragon Father by making them "blessed guardians" of the Seal of the Void. Among others, however, the "hero" would be portrayed as a heretical necromancer sacrificing hundreds, and denying them peaceful afterlife, to defeat his rival the Dragon Father and steal the Dragon Father's power for his own.

Really play up that this was so long ago, the absolute truth of what happened isn't recalled by any mortal beings.

This allows you to seed possible alternative ways the Seal of the Void might be re-made without sacrificing hundreds of lives. For example, maybe those "blessed guardians" can be returned to their duty (re-forging the Seal) with something like a horn of Valhalla, or performing a quest for them in the spirit world, or a scene with the ghost army like that in The Return of the King.

 

[ccs]

Chapter 1: Enter Princess Plot Hook

?: Why do the evil cultists want (need?) to sacrifice PPH? Why her specifically?

?: Where are they doing this?
Obviously not in the city/palace as you later on want those locations to be unfamiliar to the PCs.

?: WHY/HOW do the PCs become involved in this plot?

?: Now that PPH has been rescued....
WHY can't she be taken home to the palace? You said ".... reasons". Tell us what those reasons are.
Because returning the princess (& claiming a big reward) will likely be the 1st idea that occurs to the players.

?: Later you stated that the only thing that needs to happen is that the PCs escort PPH & her guardian to a specific location.
Who is this guardian? And why can't they manage this task alone? Afterall, 1 adult & a child blend in better than 1 adult + 1 child + 4 (or more) assorted adventurers {especially given that so many like to play things that standout - like Dragonborn, Paladins, etc}
Where is this specific location?

?: Once PPH & Guardian are safely escorted to _____, what do you envision the PCs doing?
How much later do you imagine the PCs crossing the unknown city & helping her regain the throne?


Chapter ?: Crossing the Unknown City

?: Other than it's big & that none of the PCs have any connection to it, tell us more about this city.
* What's going on in general when the PCs arrive?
* How many steps do you want to be involved in crossing the city?
* Is there a time limit involved?
* How are the PCs supposed to get into the palace?
* What are they supposed to do once they're in?
* Do the PCs have to bring PPH along on this?

What happens if the PCs decide to return PPH to the palace after rescue her?
How much info does PPH have concerning what's going on?


Chapter ??: The Dragon Father

It seems like a poor lock that can be defeated with the blood of the imprisoned one's own followers.

?: Perhaps the Gates were not literally sealed with the blood of 100s. Afterall counting hard won victories by how much blood/dead they cost is a pretty common description. Think D-Day, etc.
So yes, 100's did die. But it was mostly fighting the DF forces, beating it down, & generally buying the wizards/priests/etc the time they needed to complete their ritual.

? How to re-seal the gate.
The same way it was sealed the 1st time.
Except that it was done so long ago that there's no living memory of the ritual.
* Perhaps a trip to an oracle or the Great Library of _____ is in order.
* And then the PCs discover that the DF Followers have thought of this, beat them there, & destroyed the records of the ritual. (they have afterall had generations to plan their lords return you know)

* As with the blood not being literal? Perhaps the "Chain" isn't either. Perhaps it refers to the original group of wizards/clerics/etc that performed the ritual.
So if an oracle/divination etc tells you to "Re-forge the chain...."

 

[jasper]

?: Why do the evil cultists want (need?) to sacrifice PPH? Why her specifically? ....
Because Darryl Gore Gone (Demi Gore Gone younger brother) demands it. Because thank god for little girls because they are made out of sugar and spice. And Darryl likes flossing his teeth with little girl's pony tails. Boy what a collection of ribbons does he have.

 

[Not a Hobbit]

Chapter 1: Enter Princess Plot Hook

?: Why do the evil cultists want (need?) to sacrifice PPH? Why her specifically?

Just one cultist. She thinks that King's Blood will release the Dragon Father from his imprisonment. She is wrong, and has actually misread the prophecy.

?: Where are they doing this?
Obviously not in the city/palace as you later on want those locations to be unfamiliar to the PCs.

In a house far away, where the cultist has tricked PPH's Sworn Shield to send her

?: WHY/HOW do the PCs become involved in this plot?

The first scene of the campaign involves the party helping/witnessing the Sheriff of the town (a friend of all party members), the Sworn Shield, the woman (who is the cultist, although unknown to all), and PPH combat a squad of soldiers from PPH's country. The Sworn Shield hires the party (on the recommendation of the Sheriff) to escort the woman and PPH through the wilderness to a small town further away. The Sworn Shield will follow the more common route, hoping that the pursuit will follow him. He will eventually meet up with them. That's their plan, it may seem daft. If necessary, the woman uses Suggestion to get the Sworn Shield to agree to it, and separate PPH from Sworn Shield.

?: Now that PPH has been rescued....
WHY can't she be taken home to the palace? You said ".... reasons". Tell us what those reasons are.
Because returning the princess (& claiming a big reward) will likely be the 1st idea that occurs to the players.

PPH's brother has been murdered, and the only remaining member of the family is the failing 100 year old king, her great-grandfather. The Sworn Shield does not trust the Prime Minister. (With good reason, the PM has designs to marry PPH when she is of age, and take rule of the country), and is trying to get her someplace safe. He has a friend who can get PPH to a country far away.

?: Later you stated that the only thing that needs to happen is that the PCs escort PPH & her guardian to a specific location.
Who is this guardian? And why can't they manage this task alone? Afterall, 1 adult & a child blend in better than 1 adult + 1 child + 4 (or more) assorted adventurers {especially given that so many like to play things that standout - like Dragonborn, Paladins, etc}
Where is this specific location?

The guardian is the cultist who has seduced the Sworn Shield. The party will be going into the wilderness, and so are needed for protection against wild animals, more than soldiers. They are supposed to go to a town, but will end up at the cultists house, where she will attempt to kill the party and sacrifice PPH

?: Once PPH & Guardian are safely escorted to _____, what do you envision the PCs doing?
How much later do you imagine the PCs crossing the unknown city & helping her regain the throne?

The party can do whatever they want. I have Urban, Wilderness, Feywild, Shadowfell, Underdark, Snow, Vampire and lots of other things for them to do. They could also do these things with PPH in tow. Right now she is just a stat block, but if she did tag along for a while, I would give her some abilities so that she wouldn't be totally useless (Keen Mind would be great, because you know players keep forgetting things the DM tells them.) If that's what they want to do. PPH has led a very sheltered life, and would probably want to stay with them if that's where she feels safest. Sworn Shield may be killed or captured.

Chapter ?: Crossing the Unknown City

?: Other than it's big & that none of the PCs have any connection to it, tell us more about this city.
* What's going on in general when the PCs arrive?
* How many steps do you want to be involved in crossing the city?
* Is there a time limit involved?
* How are the PCs supposed to get into the palace?
* What are they supposed to do once they're in?
* Do the PCs have to bring PPH along on this?

The city is the largest in the world, and the cradle of humanity. It has been inhabited continuously since the dawn of time. It is the capitol of the most powerful nation in the world. It is on a peninsula with a mountain range blocking the land side. On the mountainside is where the palace, the main temple and the houses of the nobles are located. The flat land is a crowded cesspool. This is what the party will have to traverse to reach the mountains (There are two mountain passes into the city, but they both lead into the flat lands.).

The king will have recently died, and the city is on edge to decide whether to support PM in his claim for power. As Quickleaf suggests, there would probably be some possible allies. Perhaps one has a secret entrance to the palace, the temple, or another house on the mountainside. The time limit is PM consolidating power. The goal will be to enter the palace, defeat the PM and his henchmen, and put PPH on the throne.

What happens if the PCs decide to return PPH to the palace after rescue her?
How much info does PPH have concerning what's going on?[?QUOTE]

The party would receive a handsome reward, and allowed to go on their merry way (or more likely executed for trying to abduct a member of the royal family). PPH would be a virtual prisoner in the palace until she is old enough to marry. To start, she only knows that she is in danger, because that is what Sworn Shield has told her. She learns the details either along with the party, or from some other wise source.

Chapter ??: The Dragon Father

It seems like a poor lock that can be defeated with the blood of the imprisoned one's own followers.

The followers do not know this. They think that King's Blood will do it. The party will learn at some point of the true prophecy (a minor translation error). Then they will have to decide whether to let hundreds of cultists die and release the Dragon Father, or let hundreds of cultists live and keep the Dragon Father imprisoned.

?: Perhaps the Gates were not literally sealed with the blood of 100s. Afterall counting hard won victories by how much blood/dead they cost is a pretty common description. Think D-Day, etc.
So yes, 100's did die. But it was mostly fighting the DF forces, beating it down, & generally buying the wizards/priests/etc the time they needed to complete their ritual.

? How to re-seal the gate.
The same way it was sealed the 1st time.
Except that it was done so long ago that there's no living memory of the ritual.
* Perhaps a trip to an oracle or the Great Library of _____ is in order.
* And then the PCs discover that the DF Followers have thought of this, beat them there, & destroyed the records of the ritual. (they have afterall had generations to plan their lords return you know)

* As with the blood not being literal? Perhaps the "Chain" isn't either. Perhaps it refers to the original group of wizards/clerics/etc that performed the ritual.
So if an oracle/divination etc tells you to "Re-forge the chain...."

The way the story is now, the chain was forged by a dwarven smith, and the stone crafted by a gnome. I wonder how the prophecy could be worked so that the party would still have to quest for something (right now, the three parts of the chain were given to the kings of dwarves, men, and elves. The gnome I had planned on being in a fortress on the Astral Plane, so that he hasn't aged)

Thank you all for the good ideas. I really appreciate it.

--Scott