Pathfinder 2E Leveling Up

[Henry]

Actually, feels more like d20 modern than 4e - more like they took the “rogue talent” or “alchemist discovery” model. You see this approach in Starfinder already.

 

[Teataine]

Breaking down the class abilities into "feats" and giving you a free choice of which ones you want to take is something I've wanted in my D&D for so long. I even tried to hack 5e for it but it's too much work for the amount of free time I have. If the feats are actually balanced with no trap choices, I'll be quite happy with this.

My issue is more with the HP inflation. We already know you get more HP at first level, which I'm fine with (back when I still ran PF, I usually houseruled that you get your full Con score to your HP at lvl 1) but I'd expect the increases to be smaller after that. Judging by this blog you get max HD hp each level which will add up quickly.

 

[Aldarc]

Actually, feels more like d20 modern than 4e - more like they took the “rogue talent” or “alchemist discovery” model. You see this approach in Starfinder already.

There are definitely a sense of a variety of different systems at play: e.g., 4e, 5e, True20, d20 Modern, etc. But d20 Modern was really the first that expanded customization more on the level per level basis within the d20 chassis.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

The great thing about that though is it would feel like the parts of 4e Powers that 4e fans liked, and not feel like the parts of 4e Powers that 4e detractors didn’t like.

OK that makes sense.

 

[Redbadge]

I meant not just the mechanics, but the implementation is reminiscent of 4e. For example, they talk a lot about standardizing the format and presentation, as well as relying more heavily on keywords (see agile, force, sweep, etc. revealed for the new pf2 weapons as compared to 4e terms such as brutal, slide, etc). I think they want to incorporate some of the lessons they learned from their PF Beginner Box design, for example, where much of the content was presented in color-coded, key-worded boxes or blocks. One of the PF2 reveals suggested that the new Feats/Powers would be organized under each class by the Level prerequisite to aid selection at each new level, which is exactly how the 4e player Handbook presented the new power options. If the PF2 Feats are organized this way, and also have the keywords/formatting they’ve suggested, then it is going to be very nostalgic for me as a 4e fan.

 

[Ancalagon]

Too many feats can be a problem.

First it's a lot to learn and master. Second the more possible combinations, the more chances of some of them being broke. Lastly, if you have tons of choices but only a few are optimal... the real range of choices isn't as wide as it looks.

 

[CapnZapp]

I 'm guessing that class abilities are now class feats.

They really need a better term than "feats"

 

[Jacob Lewis]

I suspect that the feats are going to take the place of a lot of baked-in class features so you can truly make each character unique. So, for example, instead of every rogue getting Uncanny Dodge at level "X", you decide which to improve an old feature or gain a new one for your rogue. We seen this with archetypes replacing class features for different class options, so this seems like the next logical step in progression.

And very excited to see a lot of the best parts of 4e design are being incorporated and hopefully improved!

 

[BryonD]

You know... I didn’t want to be the one to say it, but a lot of what they’ve revealed so far has reminded me of some of my favorite parts of 4e. Some of the stuff they said about monster design, getting a choice of new abilities every level, Feats that let you do special Maneuvers with your action, the streamlined action economy... I don’t want to get my hopes up too soon, but I’m loving the 4e-isms we’re starting to see. I hope it doesn’t turn off too many current PF1 fans though. But Paizo is doing one thing very right that WotC did wrong, and that’s respecting the previous edition and its fans, and making sure PF1 remains available to those who want to keep playing it.

As a huge PF fan who was very underwhelmed by 4E, I'm also seeing some big picture concepts that were advertised and/or included in 4E. And they are all things that are positive. I have no doubt there will be 100 shades of grey on every topic. But the fundamental "issues" with 4E from a PF fan point of view have not made any appearances. And I greatly doubt they will.

There are a lot of things that the design community has learned since PF1 came out.

 

[Ancalagon]

BTW... That piece of art... the dwarf is holding an axe and a... what? What is that? Looks awkward