Pathfinder 2E Leveling Up

[Elodan]

http://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lklr?Leveling-Up

I 'm guessing that class abilities are now class feats. Seems like a lot of feats to keep track of.

 

[Sunseeker]

1k to each level is...interesting, so presumably "at level" fights always award the same amount of XP? How does the system handle "punching up" I wonder?

I like the idea of selective feats, but it's going to run into bloat and power-gaming REALLY fast. I mean, maybe that's the goal here, but on the flip-side it will do well to avoid "dead" or "useless" class features that would otherwise be "stock" to the class but useless for your specific character. I mean there are elements of 5E's Gladiator, Battlemaster and Champion I'd like to purloin into one mix-fighter.

But yeah, 20 feats by 20th level? Assuming you don't get any from any outside sources, may be a lot of things to keep track of. But I also wonder if it's really any different than the "stock" material that would come with a class by default? I mean, I'm certain that a 5E Monk has 20 feats and features by level 20. A fighter? Probably not.

Perhaps by individualizing the features they will be able to better balance them, relying on entry chains, minimum level and stat requirements could be a good way to determine if something you can take at 1st level is broken, and something you can take at 14th level is worthless.

 

[Redbadge]

One of the main threads through the comments on the Paizo forums about this article is that their may be a better term than "Feats" for all these powers that classes get at each level. I agree. I think the 4e term, "Powers", would be most appropriate, although Talents is pretty good as well.

The more and more I see of this system, the more I feel like it will be a spiritual successor to 4th Edition (no offense to 13th Age).

 

[Lord Mhoram]

To me, this is really reminiscent of Rogue Genius Games "Talented X" classes. Bacially they tore a class down and you picked "talents" sort of standard abilities and "Edges" sort of class definin ones. You could customize any specific class as you liked, picking class abilities of main class and archetypes mixed together.

I don't really see it as 4E, except, maybe, is "class feat, skill feat, ancestry feat, general feat" progression. But if all Class Feats are are just class abilities in PF1, then you can really customise your character with the new setup. Class feats are (old) class features, General Feats are what Feats were before, Ancestory feats are for your ancestory (race) - like the chain that gave Dhampirs vampire like abilities, just baked into all ancestories, and skill feats - which give PF1 skill unlock kind of things.

Personally I love the openess of that design philoisophy. This blog is what chnaged me from "I will look at it with academic intersted in game design" to "I want to play NOW!"

 

[Lord Mhoram]

One of the main threads through the comments on the Paizo forums about this article is that their may be a better term than "Feats" for all these powers that classes get at each level. I agree. I think the 4e term, "Powers", would be most appropriate, although Talents is pretty good as well.

The more and more I see of this system, the more I feel like it will be a spiritual successor to 4th Edition (no offense to 13th Age).

The big thing with powers in 4E is that they were very similar from class to class - and almost all combat focused. If class feats in PF2 are just class abilities renamed, and with the freedom to choose the ones you want, even if the structure is "class feat every other level" - assuming each class's feats are very different, it wouldn't really feel like 4E to me. And a LOT of recent PF has done "pick a talent/arcana/discovery/arana every even level."

 

[vpuigdoller]

I like that you can choose your class feats (options) in any order you want, it sounds like there will be extra room for different builds.

 

[Charlaquin]

This... Sounds... Awesome! I love everything I’m hearing here.

 

[Charlaquin]

The more and more I see of this system, the more I feel like it will be a spiritual successor to 4th Edition (no offense to 13th Age).

You know... I didn’t want to be the one to say it, but a lot of what they’ve revealed so far has reminded me of some of my favorite parts of 4e. Some of the stuff they said about monster design, getting a choice of new abilities every level, Feats that let you do special Maneuvers with your action, the streamlined action economy... I don’t want to get my hopes up too soon, but I’m loving the 4e-isms we’re starting to see. I hope it doesn’t turn off too many current PF1 fans though. But Paizo is doing one thing very right that WotC did wrong, and that’s respecting the previous edition and its fans, and making sure PF1 remains available to those who want to keep playing it.

 

[Charlaquin]

The big thing with powers in 4E is that they were very similar from class to class - and almost all combat focused. If class feats in PF2 are just class abilities renamed, and with the freedom to choose the ones you want, even if the structure is "class feat every other level" - assuming each class's feats are very different, it wouldn't really feel like 4E to me. And a LOT of recent PF has done "pick a talent/arcana/discovery/arana every even level."

The great thing about that though is it would feel like the parts of 4e Powers that 4e fans liked, and not feel like the parts of 4e Powers that 4e detractors didn’t like.

 

[Raith5]

You know... I didn’t want to be the one to say it, but a lot of what they’ve revealed so far has reminded me of some of my favorite parts of 4e. Some of the stuff they said about monster design, getting a choice of new abilities every level, Feats that let you do special Maneuvers with your action, the streamlined action economy... I don’t want to get my hopes up too soon, but I’m loving the 4e-isms we’re starting to see. I hope it doesn’t turn off too many current PF1 fans though. But Paizo is doing one thing very right that WotC did wrong, and that’s respecting the previous edition and its fans, and making sure PF1 remains available to those who want to keep playing it.

Agree. I am certainly paying attention because of this. But there is the danger of having too many meaningless feats something that 4e had in spades, but given the lack of meaningful choices in 5e PC design, I think its worth the risk.