When Fantasy meets Medieval Europe

[Ancalagon]

Why should I do that?

3) The technology of D&D is Medieval, not Ancient as in Ancient Rome and earlier which was the time of those pagan deities.

First of all, bravo for attempting this, I did something quite similar but using a different rule set (warhammer frpg 2nd ed) and a different locale (started in Anatolia, headed east). Time period was very similar (1150). I also of course had very different assumptions than you - my elves weren't in America...

But anyway. I'm afraid you are incorrect on #3. The technology of D&D is not medieval, it's early renaissance. There is no full plate in 1100, and there aren't any rapiers either (or halberds...). In fact the whole armor section is a mess. Studded leather *doesn't exist*.

(I'm not done reading the thread but I wanted to point this out in case it wasn't picked up and I forgot)

 

[Ancalagon]

[MENTION=6925649]Thomas Bowman[/MENTION]: All I'm try to say is that the problem with running a fantasy universe with close parallels to reality is that you are going to be inevitably perceived as not only making commentary on the fantasy reality, but making commentary on the real world as well.

I do understand that it is a game universe you are creating, but the closer you make that game universe to reality, the more likely you are to getting into an argument over whether your game reality accurately reflects the real reality.

This is one of the issues that have kept me from publishing my work. Is it "accurate enough"? And would it offend some people - from the errors, but also from some of the game design choices - would people from culture X be offended that they are represented by hobgoblins?

The other two main issues were potential licensing (it uses the warhammer rules after all...) and well, the sheer amount of work involved

 

[Ancalagon]

One suggestion I have is to give your fictional God a campaign specific name to separate the Deity from the God(s) of real world religions. Since this is the Holy Roman Empire, you could simply use a Latin word for God such as Deus or Divus. If those don't appeal to you, you can use Google Translate to pick something else. Of course, Satan is already a Latin word for the Devil, but you could also use either Diabolus or maybe even Antitheus. Or perhaps instead of saying worshipers of the Devil are satanists, say they are diabolists. It is similar but unique "gaming" enough that you won't have to deal with players cringing when 'sensitive' real world terminology comes up in-game.

I second this suggestion.

In my game, I decided to borrow from Guy Gavriel Kay and use his pseudo historical take on religion.

Christianity became followers of Jad, who worshiped the sun, and honored his son who was nailed to a tree - although factions hotly debate the details. The Muslims became Asharites, who followed the word of the Prophet who revealed the divinity of the starts. And the Jews (the fictional name escapes me at the moment) worshiped the moon.

Even though it was obviously a pastiche of real world religion, it added a nice... buffer... almost. Also, in my game, there was (like in real life) uncertainty about who was the "real" god. Some Jadite priests got spells, and so did some Asharites priests.

 

[Ancalagon]

Lastly... what are you trying to *achieve* here?

Is this for a game you are going to run? A setting you are going to publish?

One thing we tend to forget is how ... big ... the world is when you don't have modern transportation. Right now I could hop in a car and drive to montreal, a city 200 km away, in about 2 hours. A bit of a trip, but very doable - I could go there, do stuff and come back in one day. But if you're on foot, that trip will now take 40 hours of travel - more of you don't have good roads. That's nearly a week of travel! In the modern world, with a week you could reach almost anywhere on earth.

What I'm getting at is that if you want to run a game, you don't need the entirety of Europe detailed. The first half of my campaign was done on a segment of map about 8 by 12 hexes, and that was plenty of room, with one journey (from Zeugma to near Bagdad) being weeks long.

 

[Thomas Bowman]

I second this suggestion.

In my game, I decided to borrow from Guy Gavriel Kay and use his pseudo historical take on religion.

Christianity became followers of Jad, who worshiped the sun, and honored his son who was nailed to a tree - although factions hotly debate the details. The Muslims became Asharites, who followed the word of the Prophet who revealed the divinity of the starts. And the Jews (the fictional name escapes me at the moment) worshiped the moon.

Even though it was obviously a pastiche of real world religion, it added a nice... buffer... almost. Also, in my game, there was (like in real life) uncertainty about who was the "real" god. Some Jadite priests got spells, and so did some Asharites priests.

I think "God" is a sufficiently generic name, there is a specific name for the Christian God, "Jehovah", which I shall not use. I think "God" is sufficiently generic without breaking into foreign words, in the 18th century they used the term "Supreme Being", but I think the word "God" is fine.

 

[Thomas Bowman]

Lastly... what are you trying to *achieve* here?

Is this for a game you are going to run? A setting you are going to publish?

One thing we tend to forget is how ... big ... the world is when you don't have modern transportation. Right now I could hop in a car and drive to montreal, a city 200 km away, in about 2 hours. A bit of a trip, but very doable - I could go there, do stuff and come back in one day. But if you're on foot, that trip will now take 40 hours of travel - more of you don't have good roads. That's nearly a week of travel! In the modern world, with a week you could reach almost anywhere on earth.

What I'm getting at is that if you want to run a game, you don't need the entirety of Europe detailed. The first half of my campaign was done on a segment of map about 8 by 12 hexes, and that was plenty of room, with one journey (from Zeugma to near Bagdad) being weeks long.

That would be interesting, I never published anything before, I am hoping to create a setting which other people will use, if I can find a way to get paid for it, I could work harder on this project and produce a better product ultimately, I think I am at a point here where I'm trying to ignite interest, later on maybe do some formal write ups and introduce adventures in this setting.

 

[Ancalagon]

I think "God" is a sufficiently generic name, there is a specific name for the Christian God, "Jehovah", which I shall not use. I think "God" is sufficiently generic without breaking into foreign words, in the 18th century they used the term "Supreme Being", but I think the word "God" is fine.

God may have been a generic term but

1: It is the term used by Christians today
2: All claim of generic god went out the window when you added Satan.

 

[Thomas Bowman]

God may have been a generic term but

1: It is the term used by Christians today
2: All claim of generic god went out the window when you added Satan.

It is also the term used by secular Muslims and Jews as well as Aristotle. "God" is sufficiently generic to be used on our Dollar bill which says, "In God we trust" Anyway, I am not willing to go through "contortions" just to avoid offending people who may be too easily offended. "Deus" sounds more like a specific god's name to the uneducated. I think "God" is fine, and if Atheists are offended, then so be it, this is not an Atheist Europe I am depicting, but I'm not expecting much divine intervention either, so it doesn't matter. Clerics get their spells when they pray, that is all that matters.

 

[Thomas Bowman]

Lastly... what are you trying to *achieve* here?

Is this for a game you are going to run? A setting you are going to publish?

One thing we tend to forget is how ... big ... the world is when you don't have modern transportation. Right now I could hop in a car and drive to montreal, a city 200 km away, in about 2 hours. A bit of a trip, but very doable - I could go there, do stuff and come back in one day. But if you're on foot, that trip will now take 40 hours of travel - more of you don't have good roads. That's nearly a week of travel! In the modern world, with a week you could reach almost anywhere on earth.

What I'm getting at is that if you want to run a game, you don't need the entirety of Europe detailed. The first half of my campaign was done on a segment of map about 8 by 12 hexes, and that was plenty of room, with one journey (from Zeugma to near Bagdad) being weeks long.

The center of Europe is more exacting than the periphery. Europe is above all a mostly human continent, most of the other races, except for dwarves and monsters living underground, come from some place else. The center of the campaign is in Europe, and Elves brought over renaissance technology, so that is where the full plate mail and other things that did not exist in historical 1100 AD Europe comes from. History is the outline, but the details are mine. I don't worry too much about historical accuracy, but when I am looking for ideas, I look to the history, and if it inspires me, I use it, otherwise I don't sweat it too much. If I want to put King Arthur in charge of Britain, and this contradicts history, I don't worry about it, if it makes a great story idea I could use it.

 

[Thomas Bowman]

I second this suggestion.

In my game, I decided to borrow from Guy Gavriel Kay and use his pseudo historical take on religion.

Christianity became followers of Jad, who worshiped the sun, and honored his son who was nailed to a tree - although factions hotly debate the details. The Muslims became Asharites, who followed the word of the Prophet who revealed the divinity of the starts. And the Jews (the fictional name escapes me at the moment) worshiped the moon.

Even though it was obviously a pastiche of real world religion, it added a nice... buffer... almost. Also, in my game, there was (like in real life) uncertainty about who was the "real" god. Some Jadite priests got spells, and so did some Asharites priests.

In this campaign, "God" is more like the Light side of the Force in Star Wars, the deity does not make personal appearances, mortals have got to solve their own problems, maybe using God as a force to help in this, but they are doing it or not, without the help of angels. Demons and Devils are there aplenty as foes for the PCs to combat. I'm not sure if using a pseudo-pagan religion in place of Christianity would be any less offensive than just using "God" and not get too detailed, or having Gods act through vessels that are not clerics or druids. It is a human drama that I am presenting, not a clash between Heaven and Hell.