When Fantasy meets Medieval Europe

[Thomas Bowman]

If he constantly trips he would make an even worse melee fighter. And if the stats were reversed he could not even attempt to fire a bow.

A crossbow perhaps, as that uses the leverage principle.

 

[Lylandra]

That's why crossbows don't have a STR penalty and are all about DEX.

One could argue that DEX to damage is appropriate as there are more or less sensitive parts of the body you're aiming at. Same as STR where you'd pull the string harder, therefore increasing the momentum/speed of an arrow.

But D&D stats are already pretty muddy per definition as some parts of DEX are definitely more STR-oriented "control of one's body parts" than just being agile and having a great hand-eye-coordination or manual dexterity.

For example, aiming properly with a bow or crossbow requires a certain amount of strength to hold your weapon still for a while. But Str 10-11 should be sufficient for a hunting bow. And farmers/warriors would most certainly ALL have that amount of strength at least.

 

[Derren]

A crossbow perhaps, as that uses the leverage principle.

He still needs to load the crossbow. Even with a winch that would be problematic (and very slow).

 

[Thomas Bowman]

Here is the Commoner Archer

Here is the Commoner spearman

 

[Lylandra]

Now the commoner archer still has Cha 13 and con 9 - why? Why would the highest stat of an archer who's a commoner on top of that be Charisma?
Why would the archer have any need to be *5 points* more charismatic than the spearman?

Also, the spearman appears to be a hunter and trapper. He wouldn't be a *professional* farmer unless he switched his job. Also, this combo would be better used for the archer since most hunters didn't hunt with spears.

Same thing with the archer. Either farmer OR hunter. And a farmer would have knowledge (nature) or heal or

And please cut ride. They wouldn't have horses. Horses are too expensive, luxury goods. Unless you wish to use this skill with an oxen. And I doubt you'd need skilled ride for a slow beast like that.

What I don't understand is: Are these specific NPC? Or are these one-of-a-thousand standard commoners? If the former, forget what I just said. If the latter, then well...

 

[Thomas Bowman]

Now the commoner archer still has Cha 13 and con 9 - why? Why would the highest stat of an archer who's a commoner on top of that be Charisma?
Why would the archer have any need to be *5 points* more charismatic than the spearman?

Also, the spearman appears to be a hunter and trapper. He wouldn't be a *professional* farmer unless he switched his job. Also, this combo would be better used for the archer since most hunters didn't hunt with spears.

Same thing with the archer. Either farmer OR hunter. And a farmer would have knowledge (nature) or heal or

And please cut ride. They wouldn't have horses. Horses are too expensive, luxury goods. Unless you wish to use this skill with an oxen. And I doubt you'd need skilled ride for a slow beast like that.

What I don't understand is: Are these specific NPC? Or are these one-of-a-thousand standard commoners? If the former, forget what I just said. If the latter, then well...

That's because she is not primarily an archer, she has another life besides firing her bow and arrow, she represents a farmer's wife, she uses a bow because she is not especially good at hand to hand combat, so she figures it is better to kill her enemies from a distance, she also has a dagger which doubles as a kitchen knife, well its use as a kitchen knife is its primary use, she uses it to cut the heads off of chickens and to butcher farm animals. if pressed into a fight, this is what she uses.

These are Russian farmers living in the shadows of the Ural Mountains There is a lot of land here for horses, so they are somewhat common, if fact there are wild horses here, and the threat of orc raids is ever present.
Here is a map showing the Russian principalities:

​

 

[Lylandra]

That's because she is not primarily an archer, she has another life besides firing her bow and arrow, she represents a farmer's wife, she uses a bow because she is not especially good at hand to hand combat, so she figures it is better to kill her enemies from a distance, she also has a dagger which doubles as a kitchen knife, well its use as a kitchen knife is its primary use, she uses it to cut the heads off of chickens and to butcher farm animals. if pressed into a fight, this is what she uses.

These are Russian farmers living in the shadows of the Ural Mountains There is a lot of land here for horses, so they are somewhat common, if fact there are wild horses here, and the threat of orc raids is ever present.
Here is a map showing the Russian principalities:

​

Again, why does this farmer woman need 13 Cha?

If she was a merchant, then this would make perfect sense. But she's doing a physical job. Probably managing a farm (and maybe serfs) in addition to working on the field and bringing the harvest to nearby mills/markets. Or, if she's among the lowliest of peasants, she'd have no management to do and only be working on the field during the day.

Okay you never said that you specifically meant russian farmers/commoners. Earlier you mentioned Hänsel and Gretel which is why I'd placed them in the HRE.

 

[Thomas Bowman]

Again, why does this farmer woman need 13 Cha?

If she was a merchant, then this would make perfect sense. But she's doing a physical job. Probably managing a farm (and maybe serfs) in addition to working on the field and bringing the harvest to nearby mills/markets. Or, if she's among the lowliest of peasants, she'd have no management to do and only be working on the field during the day.

Okay you never said that you specifically meant russian farmers/commoners. Earlier you mentioned Hänsel and Gretel which is why I'd placed them in the HRE.

More of an example, it could be any farmer, but if I want a farmer with a horse that knows how to ride one, I don't want to have to create a new set of statistics. The Russian example comes to mind because they abut the orc territories, if their are orc raids, then the Russian principalities have to deal with them. The stats have the skills ride just in case there is a horse, but if there isn't one, that skill doesn't get used, the PCs won't notice commoner with that skill not using it. Its more versatility in the stats. So basically they are the stats of a well to do peasant that owns a horse, if there is a peasant without one, then that statistic does not come into play. As for the Charisma, not all peasants are ugly looking or have no social skills. There are peasants in Germany too that own horses. Horses are typically used for farm work, such as in pulling a plow, or a cart carrying produce to market. As for Hansel and Gretel, I was thinking about that, but these are intended to be generic stats with some versatility, they would cover a whole range of peasants from poor ones to well off ones. It is easier to do that stats for a well off peasant and then don't use the skill for riding if she doesn't have a horse, than to make up stats without that skill and then have to change them if their is a peasant that has a horse. For instance if the PCs want to buy a horse, it is likely to be from a peasant that has one, for the normal riding variety and of course some peasants will specialize in breeding horses and selling them for profit.

 

[Lylandra]

Okay, I understand where you're coming from, but these commoners are actual people. Don't design them from a player's point of view or you lose much of the "realism" you seem to be so focused at.

You can always go with an "either or" option where a commoner would have *one* profession (DM's choice, depending on region and occupation) and then either ride or knowledge (nature) etc.

For the charisma: sure, not all people are born or educated the same. There would of course be commoners with a high cha out there and these people are more likely to make good deals at the market or become mayor. There could be commoners with 9 con and they might even survive their childhood should they happen to catch no nasty disease.

But your "random encounter commoners" should be standard people who are good at the stuff they're doing for a living. And that could be hunting or farming or milling or shepherding - bodily work. Not necessarily combat and also not necessarily being the natural born leader of your village.

Also, just because you got a 9 or 10 cha that doesn't mean you're ugly. You could even be really beautiful, but shy or tactless or simply not... charismatic. Social skills are, as you called them, skills. Which can be learned by spending skill points.

For the horses: Most peasants who owned horses (or mules) used them as pack animals. They were probably not trained or bred for riding as this takes a lot of time that the peasantry doesn't really have to spare. This doesn't mean they can't be ridden, but one should not expect them to abide standard commands.

Unless you talk about a wandering tribe of humans, who would also be commoners, but not peasants or farmers. They'd most likely have trained horses and might even hunt from horseback.

 

[Thomas Bowman]

Okay, I understand where you're coming from, but these commoners are actual people. Don't design them from a player's point of view or you lose much of the "realism" you seem to be so focused at.

You can always go with an "either or" option where a commoner would have *one* profession (DM's choice, depending on region and occupation) and then either ride or knowledge (nature) etc.

For the charisma: sure, not all people are born or educated the same. There would of course be commoners with a high cha out there and these people are more likely to make good deals at the market or become mayor. There could be commoners with 9 con and they might even survive their childhood should they happen to catch no nasty disease.

But your "random encounter commoners" should be standard people who are good at the stuff they're doing for a living. And that could be hunting or farming or milling or shepherding - bodily work. Not necessarily combat and also not necessarily being the natural born leader of your village.

Also, just because you got a 9 or 10 cha that doesn't mean you're ugly. You could even be really beautiful, but shy or tactless or simply not... charismatic. Social skills are, as you called them, skills. Which can be learned by spending skill points.

For the horses: Most peasants who owned horses (or mules) used them as pack animals. They were probably not trained or bred for riding as this takes a lot of time that the peasantry doesn't really have to spare. This doesn't mean they can't be ridden, but one should not expect them to abide standard commands.

Unless you talk about a wandering tribe of humans, who would also be commoners, but not peasants or farmers. They'd most likely have trained horses and might even hunt from horseback.

You make a good point. Here's what I can do, I will take the Commoner Spearman, and trade out his feat Animal Affinity for Martial Arts proficiency in a short bow and give him a short bow with arrows for ranged combat, and a longspear for melee combat. The longspear is basically a sharpened stick or a pointy farm implement, the bow is for hunting and for protecting livestock from predators and rustlers I will switch the scores for Dexterity and Constitution so Dexterity gets the 12 and the +1 bonus, and Constitution loses the +1 to hit points. This will be the average commoner equally capable in both ranged and melee combat. Not a warrior by any means, but he will defend his farm and family. No more two kinds of commoner, I won't distinguish between male and female. Since this is first level the Commoner gets the maximum of 4 hit points.

A warrior gets an upgrade, unlike the commoner, he wear leather armor and carries a wooden shield, his ability scores will be the same as the Commoner, but instead of being armed with a longspear, he gets a long sword, instead of a shortbow, he gets a longbow, he is part of a militia or the town guard, probably in charge of law enforcement in some cases.

After that, I will use the elite array to create a 1st level fighter, this character is typically a hired mercenary, or maybe a knight's squire, he wears studded leather armor and carries a steel shield.

Then I will do a Barbarian, followed by a Ranger these will use the elite array as well

Another step up is a knight, this is a 1st level Aristocrat, he is decked out in plate armor and has a war horse, and has a longsword, a crossbow, and a lance for charging opponents on horseback, the Aristocrat knight has the average array ability scores.

A 1st level Paladin is next, he gets the same equipment as the Aristocrat knight, but uses the Elite array, and has the benefits and abilities of a Paladin.

Next up is the Rogue, he uses the elite array, the order of these character classes is in decreasing frequency.
After that comes the Cleric, every town has a cleric of some sort, usually the leader of the local church or a subordinate working in that church, or he can even be a cult leader or perhaps an unaffiliated holy man outside of the Church hierarchy.

Next comes the Bard, then comes the Druid, Druids are rare, they tend to be loners preferring the company of animals to humans. Bards and Druids use the Elite array
Finally we get to Wizards and Sorcerers, probably of the two Wizards are less common, Sorcerers are born with the talent of spell casting, they often hide their true nature for fear of being accused of practicing witchcraft. Wizards study for the spells, they do so out of a desire for power, they are willing to defy community prejudices against arcane magic in order to acquire this power. Many wizards and clerics are in the employ of nobles and kings, they figure it is better to have such people on their side as employers and as protection against the Church and Community prejudices.