5e & PF2 - Why Choose the Same Approach?

[TerraDave]

White Wolf did make money with more "narrative" driven games (though WoD and say, FATE are pretty different, and neither is like all those indy games). But back in those crazy days so did GURPS.

Otherwise its D&D, decades ago and right now. PF2 may not do as well as PF1, but trying to strip it down and make it more about the collective story would almost certainly be a recipe for disaster.

 

[Parmandur]

Sure, me too. XOMG KotSf seemed aweful at the time. Then, later, I ran HotDQ, and, yeah, something about 1st modules of an ed just seems to be tripping WotC up. But, a horrid first module didn't even slow down 5e (well, I assume, I suppose it could've done even better had the first module been CoS).

Of course, 5e doesn't have an issue with bad jargon decisions, because it doesn't have many jargon decisions, it mostly just used immemorial D&Disms and natural language - though I'm curious which particular bad choice of jargon you're thinking of....

edit: ...hm, my guesses would have to include: exploit, power, Tier, Core Rule Book, Leader, Healing (the keyword) and Healing Surge.

HotDQ is pretty iffy, but it is not the first adventure: The List Mines of Phandelver came out before the core books, and it is fantastic.

 

[Tony Vargas]

HotDQ is pretty iffy, but it is not the first adventure: The List Mines of Phandelver came out before the core books, and it is fantastic.

First printed module, then...

 

[Parmandur]

First printed module, then...

Well, again, LMoP was in print, and more readily available months earlier: it really was and remains the mainstream path of entry, while 4E just had KotS (which I recall enjoying, fir what it is worth, though I didn't keep playing so I guess I didn't enjoy it that much). They also didn't go with one big, drawn out story across tiers and products, opting for zero-to-hero every product (except for Rise of Tiamat). Hoard isn't great, but within a year it was the second of four level one adventures being showcased, so it's flaws are less glaring.

 

[Tony Vargas]

What's the difference, really, between a cantrip and an at-will power?

Ironically, one difference is that 'at will' has been part of the D&D lexicon longer than 'cantrip.' The 1977 1e AD&D Monster Manual listed many spell-equivalent powers that various monsters could use 'at will,' and the term has seen use in every ed since. OTOH, cantrips appeared in Dragon Magazine in the early 80s, and in AD&D rules, propper, with 1e Unearthed Arcana. Then vanished but for the mechanically different 1st level spell of that name in 2e, until 3e revived them.

That's not to say one edition is strictly speaking "better"

You don't have to say it and, strictly speaking, "Strictly speaking better" counts for squat, compared to 'moves more units' or 'lower cost of development."

 

[Tony Vargas]

Well, again, LMoP was in print, ....

I meant actual dead-tree print. I know LMoP, a basic pdf and such dropped first, on line.

 

[Parmandur]

I meant actual dead-tree print. I know LMoP, a basic pdf and such dropped first, on line.

Lost Mines is not a PDF product, it's only available in print on paper, inside the Starter Set, the very first physical dead-tree product. It really is quite a good adventure, and slides nicely into the subsequent APs other than the Tyranny of Dragons.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Lost Mines is not a PDF product, it's only available in print on paper, inside the Starter Set,

Explains why I've never laid eyes on it. Thanks for setting me straight.

 

[Parmandur]

Explains why I've never laid eyes on it. Thanks for setting me straight.

You are welcome; if you haven't already, the Starter Set is very worth the money for Lost Mines and the player rules booklet. It is still in the top ten for fantasy gaming, ahead of all the APs, on Amazon for good reason. I brought it up to bolster your point: 5E, in Lost Mines, had a stellar introduction that people are still using as the entry point to the game after four years in print. Keep on the Borderlands did not have a four year plus shelf life, and that is as much the adventure as the edition.

 

[Tony Vargas]

You are welcome; if you haven't already, the Starter Set is very worth the money for Lost Mines and the player rules booklet. .

Yeah, I haven't bought a starter set since, well, I started. I've at least seen some of the intervening ones, but this ed's has slipped by me, but for hearing so much about LMoP on line...