Archdevil Moloch (Mordenkainen's tome of foes preview from Dragon+)

[darjr]

[MENTION=6784868]Erechel[/MENTION] I don’t think CR is supposed to work that way. Matched to level.

 

[Erechel]

Would you like to be the opponent testing a party against Moloch then. Also according to encounter building. CR 21 equals 5 PCs of level 17. I am certain that if you controlled 5 level 12 PC's Moloch would win handily. And you would have some difficulty with him as a level 17.

Do you have a group of level 12 characters.

Currently, I don't. I use to DM a group that ended when they hit level 15, but now one of the members has moved to Spain (I'm Argentinian) and another has diagnosed schizophrenia, so he isn't very available. This group was incredibly powerful by then. I made the mistake of giving them a ring of jump, and they gave it to the Oath of the Ancients half orc paladin, who currently hosts a game for me as a player.

The orc had insane mobility, was very strong, and he killed my Balor and chasmes like a champ. In two rounds. The elven evoker was also incredibly smart and lucky, and the assassin was a devious little punk, and the "face" of the party. He was always armed with poison or holy water. And he always act first Then there was the schizo druid. And the fighter. The fighter, without being specially smart, was a powerhouse, even being two levels lower than the party. He was a dual-wielder, heavy armored EK. He dished damage like a beast. He hasted himself or the paladin.

The paladin was always mounted, except when he don't, and his horse almost flight with his ring of jump. I miss that game.

 

[Erechel]

[MENTION=6784868]Erechel[/MENTION] I don’t think CR is supposed to work that way. Matched to level.

View attachment 96676

That is an unearthed arcana. It wasn't the premise of the DMG. A level 20 creature would have to be an even fight for a level 20 group of four. I know that it is actually an easy fight (the XP doesn't match the Average level fight) but a level 21 should be at least difficult. If not, why bother with CR?

 

[MonsterEnvy]

That is an unearthed arcana. It wasn't the premise of the DMG. A level 20 creature would have to be an even fight for a level 20 group of four. I know that it is actually an easy fight (the XP doesn't match the Average level fight) but a level 21 should be at least difficult. If not, why bother with CR?

It's Xanathar's Guide it's official now.

 

[Yaarel]

Not unless playing Tieflings are causing players to become Satanists.

Heh, to be fair, many of the characters that players play are warlocks who sold to their soul to a devil. (There is no requirement for warlock characters to sell their souls to a devil, but the flavor is there and it often happens at player tables.) (However there is now a requirement for cleric characters to worship polytheistic gods.)

The fears of the socalled ‘satanic panic’ had a point.

In any case, a fearful approach against evil is misguided. So certain Christian traditions that are paranoid about devil and demons seem to be missing the point about the sovereignty of the infinite divine and the power of doing good.

It helps to understand what ‘playfulness’ is, and why a safe space to be outrageous is important − and fun.

Heh, just saying, their fears werent entirely wrong.

When disagreeing with someone, it is ok to acknowledge a grain of truth, even while objecting to other problems with their point of view.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Heh, to be fair, many of the characters that players play are warlocks who sold to their soul to a devil. (There is no requirement for warlock characters to sell their souls to a devil, but the flavor is there and it often happens at player tables.) (However there is now a requirement for cleric characters to worship polytheistic gods.)

There Patron may be a devil but that does not mean they sold their soul. (Though they can eventully.)

Also Clerics are not required to worship polytheistic gods. You can worship concepts as well.

So no they did not have a point.

 

[Yaarel]

Also Clerics are not required to worship polytheistic gods. You can worship concepts as well.

Heh, I dont care about devils and demons − but the cleric thing is a sore point.

The Players Handbook explicitly requires polytheistic worship. The possibilities of other kinds of religions must be explicitly part of the cleric class itself − for the player to read and decide. The only exception to heavy handed polytheism is obscure, in a splatbook, in the book Xanathars Guide to Everything. And even then, the exception might be unavailable because of the custom, ‘Players Handbook + 1’. The DMs Guide mentions the possibility of alternatives to polytheism, but even that section tries to persuade the DM to enforce the worship of polytheism. But in any case, it is the PLAYER that needs to know that a monotheistic (or animistic or philosophical) cleric character is valid according to the rules of D&D, and a diversity of religious outlooks must be possible in the Players Handbook itself.

 

[SkidAce]

The barbarian has advantage on Initiative checks and will go first or second when combined with cutting words. For sure the Ranger is getting all her attacks in that first round. The ranger deals more damage than what the monster can regenerate if he decides to stay away. If it wants to do anything other than get destroyed by the wizard and the ranger.

Like I said, the most likely outcome is the Devil Lord flees for his life at the end of the first round. This isn't a fight it can win against my group.

I would like to see your party versus Moloche run in this forum by you and somebody else. It would be cool and interesting.

EDIT: I see this was already suggested, my bad...didn't mean to pile on, am actually interested.

 

[Iry]

Constantly backing up does not seem like the most interesting strategy.

Have him and his skeleton archers constantly weaving in and out of Stinking Cloud, only multiple teleporting away for regeneration phases or escaping from nasty AOE fields. Spam Geas on everyone you can.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Constantly backing up does not seem like the most interesting strategy.

Have him and his skeleton archers constantly weaving in and out of Stinking Cloud, only multiple teleporting away for regeneration phases or escaping from nasty AOE fields.

Backing up is indeed not the best strategy unless he is very injured. The better plan is bait or pull the melee fairly close to him (Depending on initiative.) then teleport decently close to the parties back line on the other side. And beating them up or better yet use breath of despair on them. As this has a good chance of taking the backline out of the fight. Guys like the Cleric and Wizard who could cause problems. If this succeeds victory for Moloch is near certain. As he can use his superior mobility to keep the frightened characters trapped. While focusing on taking out the paladin or anyone that could cause him problems.