D&D 4E List of Potential New Martial Practices

[Garthanos]

Martial Techniques may not really be an offshoot of this but the mechanics are inter related

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?645036-Martial-Techniques&p=7440278#post7440278

 

[Garthanos]

Prices of Power in Practice

I am not just introducing new practices I am trying to fix their value it has been pointed out DMs really can just enable the effects of martial practices even allowing the healing surge cost. The DMG2 has a guideline that defines the relative value and the use space for both practices and rituals which goes beyond by establishing a suggested improvisation effectiveness.

Most easily expressed a skill check can be used to allow a practice to not have that healing surge cost. This feature allows the cost of practices to act more like rituals for instance while low level rituals are often still useful at higher levels their cost effectively fades out.

We also have contexts for use of Karma Points for practices (such as those being rehearsed into something akin to a scroll).

The following rather addresses those costs

Prices of Power in Practice

One of the things MPIII intends is to assure that the price of practices are “worth it”.

What is the grand level effect of knowing/employing the right practice - the DMG2 gives us an answer - success in a skill challenge, this is a take out from those guidelines associated with improvised use of money and healing surges, they present and will be leveraged fairly heavily. So if you do not agree with this the conclusion here may not jive for you.

The DMG2 accredited pocket cash of 1/10 of a magic item cost equates to a healing surge expenditure and the monetary price of a success in a skill challenge. This in combination brings the conclusion that Martial Practices are usually too expensive when compared to rituals. (which looking at the numbers range from ¼ to rarely ⅔ one would expect and Martial Practices are full cost. The proposed method for bringing that cost in line for MP using Healing Surges is basically a Skill Check. Practices and rituals effectively about purchasing improved efficiency for something which one might otherwise improvise a payment to do.

In other words practices are improved efficiency at something the heroic might indeed be able to do anyway. And they can continue to act as inspirations for those who might prefer more free form improvisational acts.

So in effect any practice whose cost was either a full healing surge or 1/10 item cost can arguably be attempted without purchasing any practice and ought to be effectively free in the sense that it is reimbursed we have several of that scale -- These are generally ones which can be seen as providing story for something you can already do by baseline 4e assumptions (such as controlling the nature of your character advancement).

Column 1 is level - and column 2 below represents the baseline cost that someone improvising - subsequent columns are varying efficiencies above that base line - generally) . and the final column is a DC which can be used to modify a Healing Surge cost with a Skill Roll .(level isnt always the level at which you gain the practice many rituals have costs to use significantly lower)

Karma Costs [full], ¼, ⅓, ½ and DCs

1. [36] → 9 or 12 or 18 (DC 15)
2. [52] → 13 or 17 or 26
3. [68] → 15 or 23 or 34 (DC 16)
4. [84] → 21 or 28 or 42
5. [100] → 25 or 33 or 50 (DC 17)
6. [180] → 45 or 60 or 90
7. [260] → 65 or 87 or 130 (DC 18)
8. [340] → 85 or 113 or 170
9. [420] → 105 or 140 or 210 (DC 19)
10. [500] → 125 or 153 or 250
11. [900] → 225 or 300 or 450 (DC 20)
12. [1300] → 325 or 433 or 650
13. [1700] → 425 or 533 or 850 (DC 21)
14. [2100] → 525 or 700 or 1050
15. [2500] → 625 or 833 or 1250 (DC 22)
16. [4500] → 1125 or 1500 or 2250
17. [6500] → 1525 or 2166 or 3250 (DC 23)
18. [8500] → 2125
19. [10500] → 2625 (DC 24)
20. [12500] → 3125
21. [22500] → 5625 (DC 25)
22. [32500] → 8125
23. [42500] → 10625 (DC 26)
24. [52500] → 13125
25. [62500] → 15625 (DC 27)
26. [112500] → 28125
27. [162500] → 40625 (DC 28)
28. [212500] → 53125
29. [312500] → 78125 (DC 29)
30. [562500] → 140625

I should probably have 3 DCs per level to represent different efficiencies just as I have 3 karma costs.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

See, all this math is why I just made a new system that can break 4e's assumption Now I have one consistent system, practices, which subsumes all the ways you can do 'operational' level things, or that you can create 'consumable' options which you can then use in action sequences (any fast-paced combat-like situation).

Anyway, your numbers don't seem crazy to me.

 

[Garthanos]

Anyway, your numbers don't seem crazy to me.

I could justify different DC target its a bit of an assumption game. I mean the target is that for the 1/4 case it means 25 percent of the time you have to pay the healing surge. For a minimally trained user that would be a target of 10 but any number of things ranging from a solid tertiary to bonuses of backgrounds and you want the target 13 or tadah 15.

And I guess that is where I got the DC from.

 

[Garthanos]

Added history and religion to skills for the Oath of Fealty practice.

 

[Garthanos]

Croms Child

Feat : Croms Disciple
Allows one to use Riddle of Steel on items up to 4 levels higher
(insert other benefit for being an independent kind of dude here
maybe even a feat bonus to Will)

New rule associates with Riddle of Steel/Rite of Independence

Item generates karma based on its relative level

if the item is four or more less than the one sacreficing/destroying it - the Karma gain is 100 percent value
if 3 then 50 percent value
if 2 then 33 percent value
if 1 less 25 percent value
if at or better then 20 percent.

 

[Garthanos]

Most easily expressed a skill check can be used to allow a practice to not have that healing surge cost. This feature allows the cost of practices to act more like rituals for instance while low level rituals are often still useful at higher levels their cost effectively fades out. .

Moved the cost table and simpler explanation into the original post.

 

[Garthanos]

At first I was thinking the value of being a Sensai is not something one might use in a skill challenge so the presumed costing system didnt apply at all. And sensai gets the same value out as a weapon forging practice.

But then I thought wait a minute! being able to teach a village to defend itself is a classic trope!!

Any hero might be able to do it and spend X dollars a Healing surge to flash train them maybe in part by becoming the villages practice dummy for instance. Someone who is a practiced sensai should be able to do it "cheaper." and more efficiently.

This use of Sensai would operate like other practices. Making this explicitly to train a dozen village men and get them to have hands like clubs so they can be a big surprise at the right moment and gain a success in a level 1 challenge. (there might be more villagers but maybe it will take for about 12 that will be enough why because see cost table above and the 1gp cost of a club).

OR it could be done by improvisationally spending a healing surge by any hero and possibly freely by a Sensai if they make a 15DC insight check.

Perhaps another group of players didnt have a sensei and instead of becoming practice dummies decided to surreptitiously buy perhaps more impressive weapons for the villagers like 36GP of spears which are more expensive because the villagers would lack the confidence with only clubs. (but being trained to use your hands is impressive and confidence building even if its equivalent weaponry).

And that is the point of the cost table and the skill checks practices shouldnt stop heros from doing things it should inspire the DM/Players and in game make it more efficient if the pcs know them.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I agree, being able to teach something is great in many SCs.

I would, in HoML, make this a practice, maybe one that can be attached to a fairly 'down the chain' boon (IE you have to work your way from Swordsman -> Sword Expert -> Sword Master) and THEN you can use the 'Sensai' practice to elevate someone else to Swordsman (or just to pass a check in an SC like 'prepare the village defenses' or something).

 

[Garthanos]

I agree, being able to teach something is great in many SCs.

I would, in HoML, make this a practice, maybe one that can be attached to a fairly 'down the chain' boon (IE you have to work your way from Swordsman -> Sword Expert -> Sword Master) and THEN you can use the 'Sensai' practice to elevate someone else to Swordsman (or just to pass a check in an SC like 'prepare the village defenses' or something).

A Kensei is a specialized Swords teacher. I misspelled Sensei numerous times lol.

The character could have taken Forge Mastery (and be able to Forge the village weapons they werent expected to have) neither ability I think demands the kind of Ranking process you mention. Although there are ranks I have in techniques they go from any mundane weapon to +6 magic items basically.

I was specifically pushing that ANY hero could either spend the cash or effort and teach the village something of this sort which would enhance the situation but the sensei does it cheaper just like a ritualist does some things cheaper.

In the case above its basically providing the village with unexpected weaponry and perhaps another party member could also say I am a Warlord and i am going to use my mastery of battle and History skill to set a plan and to get the village acting as a team I will use Diplomacy and knowing when and where to respond to the enemy. Get them wetting down buildings so the enemy cannot burn them so easily might be in their some where.

And perhaps combine that with the party engineer (wink wink) setting man traps with the villagers helping the entire process.

We can use the above so that we can funnel the baddest of the bad guys to the players who can take them out and so the village will be relatively unaffected.