Stats for civilians?

[Bootlebat]

How would you make stats for civilians in 4e? I was thinking they should be level 1 minion skirmishers but have no attacks and give no xp since the good guys aren't supposed to kill civilians if possible.

 

[ccs]

Since I hold minions to be a waste of time, I certainly wouldn't bother stating up something less....

Here's what I've always done for NPCs who don't need stats:
Name, description, role (barkeep etc). Other details as needed by story. Then during play if I need to know what bonus they have for something, and nothing I've already established informs (ex; blacksmith - probably strong, so + on str related stuff), I roll 2d6
1st roll = -/0/+?
2nd roll (only if -/+) = +/- 1-2-3

 

[Garthanos]

I think i agree most of the time individual stats are hardly needed even in a dangerous situation.

In a battle they are part of a huge skill challenge. The movies feature heros teaching and guiding joe blows in advance of an onslaught to minimize burned down town transforming them into surprise effectiveness it might be history checks to guide them so as to minimize their deaths or get them the hell away from battle at the right time. Good skill checks of various kinds even endurance for fire fighting with them, diplomacy, insight, religion? inspire them etc mean fewer deaths and a functionable town afterward.

That said I do think of them generally as being minions... but functionally they are the things they normally do.

 

[Jhaelen]

What do you need the stats for?

The only time I used commoners in 4e they worked like an environmental hazard, i.e. a fleeing mob that impeded the PCs.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Does it matter much?

 

[Bootlebat]

What do you need the stats for?

The only time I used commoners in 4e they worked like an environmental hazard, i.e. a fleeing mob that impeded the PCs.

What if your group is fighting in the middle of a crowded street? Having bystanders presents an added challenge as the PCs will presumably not want to kill them and just can't just throw around AOE damage spells willy nilly like they could otherwise. Whereas, the bad guys probably don't care how many innocent people get killed by their AOEs.

 

[Garthanos]

What if your group is fighting in the middle of a crowded street? Having bystanders presents an added challenge as the PCs will presumably not want to kill them and just can't just throw around AOE damage spells willy nilly like they could otherwise. Whereas, the bad guys probably don't care how many innocent people get killed by their AOEs.

That could be a second form of impairment Of course do an intimidate on every last one it could clear the area pretty well.

 

[pemerton]

What if your group is fighting in the middle of a crowded street? Having bystanders presents an added challenge as the PCs will presumably not want to kill them and just can't just throw around AOE damage spells willy nilly like they could otherwise. Whereas, the bad guys probably don't care how many innocent people get killed by their AOEs.

When this has come up in my game we've handled it in various ad hoc ways. Remember that the player can always choose that "dropped to zero" equals unconsciousness, not death, so to a significant extent this will be about what the attacking player thinks makes sense in the fiction.

I certainly have memories of the wizard player in my game using Colour Spray as an AoE when innocent parties were in the area, as he could easily envisage as something that might knock them out but not hurt them beyond that.

 

[Jhaelen]

What if your group is fighting in the middle of a crowded street? Having bystanders presents an added challenge as the PCs will presumably not want to kill them and just can't just throw around AOE damage spells willy nilly like they could otherwise. Whereas, the bad guys probably don't care how many innocent people get killed by their AOEs.

In 4e there's two kinds of AOE damage: One kind also affects allies (aka 'friendly fire'), the other only affects enemies. The former would be problematic to use in a crowded street, the latter isn't affected, since it's up to the spellcaster (or power user) to define who is to be considered an ally for the effect.

 

[Garthanos]

When this has come up in my game we've handled it in various ad hoc ways. Remember that the player can always choose that "dropped to zero" equals unconsciousness, not death, so to a significant extent this will be about what the attacking player thinks makes sense in the fiction.

I certainly have memories of the wizard player in my game using Colour Spray as an AoE when innocent parties were in the area, as he could easily envisage as something that might knock them out but not hurt them beyond that.

Yes and we go with that rather heavily "defeated" can also mean fleeing the scene of battle. Or other power specific fiction which make sense.