D&D 4E Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked

[Jester David]

They do not seem so much larger than encounter powers unless scales have changed a lot. Nothing like a marathon for sure. Heck most battle-masters abilities look almost like an at-will if they were spending one of the fighters attacks (instead of combining with it)

Keep in mind that most add the dice AND have an effect. They’re basically 2[w] and a kicker, which is well within the power range of heroic Encounter powers.

Plus, that die is doubled on a critical, and you don’t have to declare many until after you hit.

 

[Garthanos]

I dont know if I agree. If you want to charge through the line of battle then you can but attacks of opportunity are the price you pay to do it.

The power of flight allows you to go over the front row utterly ignoring them to reach the back row whack on the demon lord now. Both the mobility without attacks of opportunity are really the ability to apply your damage where you want to not where you have to because of obstacles. They are very comparable.

The flier gets attacks of opportunity only when they choose most of the time, its the 3D effect

Technically every ranged specialist also gets that ability to apply your damage where you like and at some level much of this assumes we are talking about melee specialists.. yes Monks, some rogues many fighters and paladins.

Oh and I mean attacks of opportunity enroute not at the end goal you stop at your back row adversary he might still get a shot right away.

 

[Parmandur]

The ridiculous unrealistic idea that a skilled fighter is just as easy to hit at low level as they are at high I found and still find preposterous.

Like Shasarak states, that would be simulated by HP in my book: it's not like anybody of any "power level" actually takes ten hits with a great axe.

Also, in real life, combat can be super swingy. A high level martial artist can get hit in the head with a brick and killed in one shot by a newb.

 

[Garthanos]

Like Shasarak states, that would be simulated by HP in my book: it's not like anybody of any "power level" actually takes ten hits with a great axe.

No that is my point of view ... he disagrees so the fighter is always just as easy to hit no matter what level... .because its never ever ever a miss for instance with somebody stumbling to get out of the way because it uses the word "hit"

 

[Shasarak]

EDIT 2: Maybe this has something to do with the type of fantasy you are trying to run but for swords and sorcery and even most fantasy adventure fiction this isn't how it works. Even in LotR Orcs stay a credible threat, especially in numbers for the majority of heroes throughout the entire saga.

In LotR the heroes were not a very high level which explains why Orcs were still a credible threat.

In comparison you can look at the battle against Sauron where he was hitting multiple people at a time. At that level he was out of the Orcs as credible threat range.

 

[Garthanos]

Also, in real life, combat can be super swingy. .

Yes Gygax pointed out no you cannot just knock Conan down with any old arrow from out of the frey swingy isnt heroic.

 

[Garthanos]

In comparison you can look at the battle against Sauron where he was hitting multiple people at a time. At that level he was out of the Orcs as credible threat range.

The movie definitely emphasized that part didnt it. Better than the books probably.

 

[Parmandur]

Yes Gygax pointed out no you cannot just knock Conan down with any old arrow from out of the frey swingy isnt heroic.

And 5E combat isn't that swingy: but it has enough swing to be fun, a real legitimate threat of death on occasion.

 

[Imaro]

In LotR the heroes were not a very high level which explains why Orcs were still a credible threat.

In comparison you can look at the battle against Sauron where he was hitting multiple people at a time. At that level he was out of the Orcs as credible threat range.

Yes but we are speaking to PC's not god/demi-god level NPC's in the game... and note he still got his fingers whacked off by a prone human lashing out desperately with an improvised weapon...

Edit: And let's not forget that Eowyn singlehandedly slays a the Witch King... Oh and Aragorn drives a horde of Nazgul off with a sword & a torch... If these are low level heroes why are they able to do stuff like this? Sounds like Bounded Accuracy to me.

 

[Shasarak]

No that is my point of view ... he disagrees so the fighter is always just as easy to hit no matter what level... .because its never ever ever a miss for instance with somebody stumbling to get out of the way because it uses the word "hit"

Doing it this way just makes my Fighter into a chump if I get attacked and take damage by stumbling out of the way of the blow. I would much rather the narrative be that my Fighter gets hit by the Giants club then it be my Fighter twisted his ankle and got winded by getting out of the way of the attack.

Yeah I am the type of Hero that can trade blows with a Giant, not hit-miss him into submission.