Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
Actually I resent that the foundations were laid for correction and not quite finished and then abandoned when Mearles got more power.On a side note I find it interesting that the game that supposedly "corrected" this
Actually I resent that the foundations were laid for correction and not quite finished and then abandoned when Mearles got more power.On a side note I find it interesting that the game that supposedly "corrected" this
Actually I resent that the foundations were laid for correction and not quite finished and then abandoned when Mearles got more power.
The way that it came up in this thread was that a poster - [MENTION=37579]Jester David[/MENTION], I think - said that the 4e system (of codified powers, codified DCs, etc) inhibited player choice.the only place I see it harped on as a major problem is on forums like this and it's usually by a handful of 4e fans who are trying to convince others to be outraged enough about it to actually care as much as they seem to.
The way that it came up in this thread was that a poster - [MENTION=37579]Jester David[/MENTION], I think - said that the 4e system (of codified powers, codified DCs, etc) inhibited player choice.
I disagreed. Nothing in the intervenig 500 or so posts has changed my mind, because all the 5e posters seem to take the view that the examples that I have in mind as illustrating what 4e permits, and as thereby marking the difference between the systems (eg 15h level fighters cutting down phalanxes of hobgoblins (statted as swarms), the forge scene, etc) are properly not feasible in 5e (because even a 15th level fighter should be threatened if surrounded by 20 hobgoblins, should most likely have his/her hands burn off if shoved into a forge, etc).
I don't care whether or not anyone else wants to play a game in which 15th level fighters are capable in that sort of way. I'm simply explaining why the 4e framework makes stuff possible - encourages it, even - which the 5e framework does not. I want that stuff even if no one else does.
To put it even more bluntly - I'm not trying to show that 5e players are irrational. I'm rebutting the suggestion that 4e does not offer anything different from 5e. It obviously does, and this thread has only underlined that fact.
What foundations?
Read my post above for how healing surges were applicable in 4e
The way that it came up in this thread was that a poster - [MENTION=37579]Jester David[/MENTION], I think - said that the 4e system (of codified powers, codified DCs, etc) inhibited player choice.
I disagreed. Nothing in the intervenig 500 or so posts has changed my mind, because all the 5e posters seem to take the view that the examples that I have in mind as illustrating what 4e permits, and as thereby marking the difference between the systems (eg 15h level fighters cutting down phalanxes of hobgoblins (statted as swarms), the forge scene, etc) are properly not feasible in 5e (because even a 15th level fighter should be threatened if surrounded by 20 hobgoblins, should most likely have his/her hands burn off if shoved into a forge, etc).
I don't care whether or not anyone else wants to play a game in which 15th level fighters are capable in that sort of way. I'm simply explaining why the 4e framework makes stuff possible - encourages it, even - which the 5e framework does not. I want that stuff even if no one else does.
It is a foundation ie yes it very much had the potential but wasn't followed up on and that is a criticism of 4e ... but i said foundation ie the first part of a building not the finished structure.Martial practices?? You acknowledge they are underpowered in relation to magic so isn't this the same problem skills have? I mean changing either one could potentially solve the problem but neither did.