Converting True Dragons

[Cleon]

How about any creature of Large size or smaller for Alternate Form?

Is that IN ADDITION TO or INSTEAD OF the ability to become a Huge Animal or Humanoid that's already in Alternate Form? I quite like the idea of a Dragon Ruler being able to disguise themselves as an Elephant or Storm Giant.

Bahamut-style immunities will work.

For clarification, I assumed you meant I should include Bahamut's immunity to acid, cold, electricity and fire to the suite of immunities Pearl already possesses.

Let me know if you'd like me to remove them.

 

[Cleon]

Is that IN ADDITION TO or INSTEAD OF the ability to become a Huge Animal or Humanoid that's already in Alternate Form? I quite like the idea of a Dragon Ruler being able to disguise themselves as an Elephant or Storm Giant.

Checking the 3E version of Bahamut, rather than using Alternate Form he has "He can use also use shapechange at will as a 20th-level sorcerer" in his spell-like abilities.

Tiamat had at will polymorph self in AD&D but curiously lost that ability in her 3E incarnation.

I'm wondering whether we can use SLAs for the Rulers. Maybe give them polymorph self plus shapechange into any dragon in their portfolio?

 

[freyar]

Hrmmm, not sure what I was thinking with the suggested change for Alternate Form. Let's leave it the way you had it originally. I think most dragons with Alternate Form have Large or smaller, but I agree, Huge is better. I think I'd prefer to stick to the usual Alternate Form ability rather than converting to an SLA. (Sigh. This seems a bit cleaner in Pathfinder.)

Yes, that's what I meant about Bahamut's immunities.

An insight bonus to AC (rather than deflection) as you suggest sounds good to me!

 

[Cleon]

Hrmmm, not sure what I was thinking with the suggested change for Alternate Form. Let's leave it the way you had it originally. I think most dragons with Alternate Form have Large or smaller, but I agree, Huge is better. I think I'd prefer to stick to the usual Alternate Form ability rather than converting to an SLA. (Sigh. This seems a bit cleaner in Pathfinder.)

So we're just leaving the Alternate Form as-is with the Huge Animal or Humanoid plus any age Chaotic dragon.

Yes, that's what I meant about Bahamut's immunities.

An insight bonus to AC (rather than deflection) as you suggest sounds good to me!

Updating Peal the Moon Dragon Working Draft.

What do you think of my modifiable sorcerer casting proposal?

How about we give it sorcerer casting but add a note that each aspect it manifests can have different "Sorcerer Known" spells based on the situation the Dragon Ruler expects to deal with?

I was thinking something like:

Each aspect of the Moon Dragon has its own selection of sorcerer spells known tailored to the situation or environment Pearl manifested the aspect to deal with. Her typical selection of Sorcerer Spells Known is as follows:

 

[Cleon]

We also need to decide on damage for her breath weapons.

My original idea was to give her the same damage for each breath weapon as a Great Wyrm dragon of that type, but upon reflection that seemed a bit weak for the less powerful dragons she emulates:

Dragon	Breath Weapon	Shape	Damage/Effect
Amber	jade-green gas	80 ft. cone	24d10 acid plus 3d6 jade curse*
	ruby-red flames	80 ft. cone	24d10 fire plus 3d6 ruby curse*
Black	acid	140 ft. line	24d4 acid
Brass	flames	140 ft. line	12d6 fire
	sleep gas	80 ft. cone	sleep for 1d6+12 rounds
Copper	acid	140 ft. line	24d4 acid
	slow gas	80 ft. cone	slowed for 1d6+12 rounds
Red	flames	80 ft. cone	24d10 fire
White	frost	80 ft. cone	12d6 cold

A 12d6 breath weapon has an average damage that's less than a third of a 24d10 breath weapon, making it such an unoptimal selection Pearl is unlikely to use it except in special circumstances.

Maybe have the weakest dragons (White & Brass) do 24d6 damage, the mid-strength dragons (Black & Copper) 24d8 and keep the 24d10 of the strongest (Amber & Red)?

EDIT: Like so:

Dragon	Original Damage	Average	Damage	Average
Amber	24d10 acid plus 3d6 jade curse*	132 plus 10.5	24d10 plus 3d6	132 plus 10.5
	24d10 fire plus 3d6 ruby curse*	132 plus 10.5	24d10 plus 3d6	132 plus 10.5
Black	24d4 acid	60	24d8	108
Brass	12d6 fire	42	24d6	84
	sleep for 1d6+12 rounds	n/a
Copper	24d4 acid	60	24d8	108
	slowed for 1d6+12 rounds	n/a
Red	24d10 fire	132	24d10	132
White	12d6 cold	42	24d6	84

Hmm… I'm tempted to bump them all up a dice size. She is supposed to be the boss of all Chaotics, after all:

Dragon	Original Damage	Average	Damage	Average
Amber	24d10 acid plus 3d6 jade curse*	132 plus 10.5	24d12 plus 4d6	156 plus 14
	24d10 fire plus 3d6 ruby curse*	132 plus 10.5	24d12 plus 4d6	156 plus 14
Black	24d4 acid	60	24d10	132
Brass	12d6 fire	42	24d8	108
	sleep for 1d6+12 rounds	n/a
Copper	24d4 acid	60	24d10	132
	slowed for 1d6+12 rounds	n/a
Red	24d10 fire	132	24d12	156
White	12d6 cold	42	24d8	108

Alternatively we just have ALL the breath weapons do the same damage - maybe 24d12? In the original rules her breath weapon did damage based on her current hit points as per a standard BECMI/AD&D dragon.

Upon reflection, that's a lot easier.

So shall we make it 24d12 for all energy breaths, plus 4d6 curse for the Amber's curses?

 

[freyar]

Yes, leave the Alternate Form as-is.

I'm all for 24d12 damage for all the breath weapons and 4d6 for the curses.

I think I'm content with letting Pearl vary her spell selection via cleric spells prepared (particularly with the domains). I think swapping out "sorc spells known" is a bit like wizard casting, right?

Also, does "In her natural form, Pearl can cast her spells with but a word" mean that we're giving her Still Spell and Eschew Materials as bonus feats in her natural form?

 

[Cleon]

Yes, leave the Alternate Form as-is.

I'm all for 24d12 damage for all the breath weapons and 4d6 for the curses.

Updating Peal the Moon Dragon Working Draft.

I think I'm content with letting Pearl vary her spell selection via cleric spells prepared (particularly with the domains). I think swapping out "sorc spells known" is a bit like wizard casting, right?

Oh well, I guess I can leave that to a Cleon Special™.

Also, does "In her natural form, Pearl can cast her spells with but a word" mean that we're giving her Still Spell and Eschew Materials as bonus feats in her natural form?

I would think Automatic Still Spell×3 plus Eschew Materials would be more accurate if you want to do it using feats rather than an arbitrary Special Ability.

 

[freyar]

Hmm, yes, you're right on the feats. But I guess the line in her spells entry will do well enough. Actually, where does that come from in the original monster? I'm having trouble finding it.

SLAs next, I suppose. Should we just give her the great wyrm SLAs of all the dragons she has the breath weapons from (frequencies overlap, not stack)?

 

[Cleon]

Hmm, yes, you're right on the feats. But I guess the line in her spells entry will do well enough. Actually, where does that come from in the original monster? I'm having trouble finding it.

That's because it's not in the original text but is a combination of the 3E stats for Bahamut and Tiamat in Manual of the Planes (which both have "with but a word" spellcasting) and the AD&D standard dragons' "Dragon spells have only a verbal component".

Let's just leave the wording as is.

SLAs next, I suppose. Should we just give her the great wyrm SLAs of all the dragons she has the breath weapons from (frequencies overlap, not stack)?

Yes I guess that'll do. For a start.

I'm more inclined to have them stack though.

Let's see, we've got:

Amber: 3/day—protection from law; 1/day—disintegrate, mass charm monster, foresight
Black: 3/day—darkness (radius ??? ft.), insect plague, 1/day—plant growth.
Brass: At-will—speak with animals,3/day—endure elements (radius ??? ft.); 1/day—suggestion, control winds, control weather
Copper: 2/day—stone shape; 1/day—transmute rock to mud or mud to rock, wall of stone, move earth
Red: X/day—locate object; 3/day—suggestion; 1/day—find the path, discern location
White: 3/day—fog cloud, gust of wind, wall of ice; 1/day—control weather

The only overlap is both White and Brass have control weather. I don't think making that 2/day is going to be deal breaking.

We need to decide what variable to replace the "per age category" ability. I'm inclined to make the Red's locate object an At-Will ability and use 150 ft. or 200 ft. for the radius of the Black's darkness and the Brass's endure elements.


Oh, and I guess we should also give it the dragons other (Sp) and (Su) abilities, namely:

Amber: luck bonus, detect gems
Black: charm reptiles, corrupt water
Brass: summon djinni (as summon monster VII)
Copper: spider climb
White: icewalking, freezing fog

 

[freyar]

I'll agree with your suggestions for locate object and go with 200 ft for both radii. This looks good, including the other (Sp) and (Su) abilities!

I guess spells should be next, but I'm kind of dreading that list. Sorc spells first? Spells per day is 6/9/9/9/8/8/8/8/7/7, I believe.
0th - acid splash, arcane mark, dancing lights, detect magic, mage hand, message, read magic, resistance, touch of fatigue ??