Would you invite this player?

[Retreater]

Looking for some interpersonal advice for a situation that might be too complex to get into here.
The basic situation. My gf has another long running D&D game with a DM (and good friend) who is very enthusiastic about the game, but doesn't have a lot of gaming experience (both in years, different systems, and different types of players). This lack of experience sometimes manifests in what most DMs would describe as bad habits: i.e. taking away player agency, making a story driven by his DM PCs, implementing whatever advice he reads about online so they can't keep up with his house rules from session to session, trying to force Critical Roll levels of performances from his players, etc.
On the few occasions he's been a player in the group with a guest DM for a one shot or standalone adventure, he tends to be a spotlight hog and does actions against other players with the excuse "that's what my character would do" (i.e. Stealing magic items).
I've never DMed for him, but I overhear that he really respects my experience. On a personal level, he's a good guy, and I've had no problems hanging out with him.
So he wants to join my new campaign as a player. My gf thinks this will be a good experience for him and possibly improve his DMing skills (seeing another group that's not professional like Critical Roll).
I'm hesitant. I've got a borderline large group (he would be the seventh player). I'm afraid our gaming styles might clash and if there's a problem he may take it personally.
I don't have the time to devote to running another regular campaign. Running a one shot might be ok, but it's difficult to model my DMing style in one session (since he says he wants to learn from me).
How would you handle it?

 

[practicalm]

I don't see how there is enough information for us to judge how to solve your issue.

1. It's going to depend on your session 0.
2. Does everyone show up all the time or will the numbers equalize as other people have obligations on some game nights?
3. What type of game are you going to run. Cinematic, High Fantasy, Gritty, Humorous? Do you have a paragraph about your game that your players have read and agreed to? This was a something that a long time regular on the Pyramid Usenet group did so players choose the campaigns they were interested in from the games he was interested in running.
4. Will you be able to get the players to have bonds to each other before the game starts? There were some Backstory cards [http://brooklynindiegames.com/games/backstory-cards/] that I found and it was amazing when I used them with a new group. They found their own ways to connect that bonded them as a group better than I had thought.
5. Do you really want to? Your fun is important and if you are not that keen on modeling GM behavior and instead want to focus on your game that is entirely the thing you should do.

 

[cmad1977]

Some red flags there for sure. The ‘well my character would do it’ kind of player is pretty much never welcome at my table. Unless they’re ok with the rest of the party literally killing them because ‘our characters kill people who steal from us’.


Also...7 people is too many for me. Especially with a potential ‘project’ player.

 

[ccs]

First I'd talk it over with the group.
If they're on board? Then I'd invite the guy over for a beer & a gaming chat about his/your styles of play.
If that went well I'd extend a limited invite - say for the 1st few lvs.
After that the group would decide wether or not to invite him back for the next few lvs.

 

[toucanbuzz]

Seven players is too many.

You don't sound enthused over the project of subjecting your players to someone who might play immaturely ("I'll be antisocial and a jerk to the party because that's what my character would do" isn't a behavior you can cure by inspiring play in the hopes they'll "come around").

But 7 players is just too many at the table, regardless if he's a good or bad influence. The more people = the less time a player has to be in the spotlight, roleplay, and interact in a meaningful way. I'd simply nix it on those grounds. If the opportunity arises in the future and a regular has to drop out, revisit the issue.

 

[jasper]

7 players are not the problem. But he sounds like a jerk. If you are going to do a Session 0, do so. Do place him on notice that stealing from the party, hogging the table, etc are no nos and will result in him being not invited back.
Just because someone is good person to hang with, does not mean they can't be a jerk at x. X could be gaming, movie night, going to a baseball game, etc.

 

[Retreater]

I don't see how there is enough information for us to judge how to solve your issue.

1. It's going to depend on your session 0.
2. Does everyone show up all the time or will the numbers equalize as other people have obligations on some game nights?
3. What type of game are you going to run. Cinematic, High Fantasy, Gritty, Humorous? Do you have a paragraph about your game that your players have read and agreed to? This was a something that a long time regular on the Pyramid Usenet group did so players choose the campaigns they were interested in from the games he was interested in running.
4. Will you be able to get the players to have bonds to each other before the game starts? There were some Backstory cards [http://brooklynindiegames.com/games/backstory-cards/] that I found and it was amazing when I used them with a new group. They found their own ways to connect that bonded them as a group better than I had thought.
5. Do you really want to? Your fun is important and if you are not that keen on modeling GM behavior and instead want to focus on your game that is entirely the thing you should do.

1. Our session 0 was basically to get a feel of the characters the players are making and to make sure all the combat roles are filled. A few of the characters have inter-crossing backstories, but it's not so tightly woven that we can't work someone new into the mix or change things up later as the campaign develops.
2. Two players have sporadic attendance and a third is out for an extended absence due to family commitments. So we have currently two steady players and a third who is new to the group that I don't have a read on yet. So at the maximum we'd have 7 players, but in practice, 5-6.
3. I'm trying to run a more character-focused campaign. For the past twenty years or so I've been running site-based adventures, pretty much shaped by the "return to the dungeon" mantra of 3.x edition. So I'm going for more of an epic feel with political intrigue and some occasional, small dungeons.
4. Concerning the bonds, two characters have connections. Several players missed Session 0 (hence a reason our table size seems inflated). Others couldn't decide what kind of character they wanted to play, so they've been working on it outside the game.
5. If he's a good, solid player, I want to add him. But I don't look forward to interpersonal complications. However, given that he's asked to join, I'm going to be put in a situation regardless.

 

[dragoner]

If your gut instinct is to say no, then say no, using whatever savoir faire you can to let them down easy.

If you do let them in game, there is this chart:

 

[Retreater]

7 players are not the problem. But he sounds like a jerk. If you are going to do a Session 0, do so. Do place him on notice that stealing from the party, hogging the table, etc are no nos and will result in him being not invited back.
Just because someone is good person to hang with, does not mean they can't be a jerk at x. X could be gaming, movie night, going to a baseball game, etc.

This is true. I have experience with tables this large (and larger). I plan on laying out my expectations for all the players before the dice start rolling (staying focused on the game to keep it moving smoothly, no inter-party conflict like stealing, deception checks, etc.) [I did this during Session 0, but I think a recap for absent players isn't a bad idea.]

 

[billd91]

If your gut instinct is to say no, then say no, using whatever savoir faire you can to let them down easy.

It's hard to argue against that advice, but I'm going to. We all sucked as players at one time or another and, if we got better, we got better because some DM took a chance on us and we learned from the experience. Since there is some flexibility with the group size due to absences, he's a generally known quantity, and he's enthusiastic - I'd recommend taking him on but laying down some ground rules about your group's style (particularly on the teamwork/stealing from the party thing). Sooner or later he's going to have to learn that his own personal style preference will have to be compromised with the style preferences of other people at the table, and an experienced DM coming from a generally friendly direction can help with that.