• NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.

Why deciding to round down multiclassing spellcaster levels was stupid

Y

Yunru

Banned
Banned
We already know that due to WotC's failings to stick to their own spell damage chart that multiclass spellcasters get gimped on damage spells because scaling rarely works right. But did you know that M.C. Spells also gets gimped in levels because... reasons (I guess)?

Here's the difference between a true blue half-caster (such as a Paladin or Ranger) and a multiclass half-caster (such as a Paladin/Ranger):
[TABLE="class: grid, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]Level\Spell Level[/TD]
[TD]1st[/TD]
[TD]2nd[/TD]
[TD]3rd[/TD]
[TD]4th[/TD]
[TD]5th[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[TD]-2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]-2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Now here's the difference if we ignore WotC's rules and round up instead:
[TABLE="class: grid, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]Level\Spell Level[/TD]
[TD]1st[/TD]
[TD]2nd[/TD]
[TD]3rd[/TD]
[TD]4th[/TD]
[TD]5th[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

The same also applies to 1/3 casters:
[TABLE="class: grid, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]Level\Spell Level[/TD]
[TD]1st[/TD]
[TD]2nd[/TD]
[TD]3rd[/TD]
[TD]4th[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[TD]-2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[TD]-2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]-2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]-2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Guess what the difference is if we round up?

TL;DR: Rounding down is stupid, and only serves to penalise multiclassing. Rounding up, on the other hand, offers no boons to multiclassing, merely removes this pointless penalty.
 

log in or register to remove this ad


lowkey13 said:
We agree on that, right?
Click to expand...

Honestly? Not really. It seems like half the stuff they came up with they just flipped a coin on. (Okay, so *half* is an exaggeration.)

There seems to be distressingly little "we've run the numbers" and a whole lottle "playtesting will catch it!... right?" when it comes to 5e's design.

Maybe I've just become jaded.
 

This also isn't an issue if you don't use the optional multiclassing rules.

Feats and multiclassing get treated by many as if they are a core part of the game. They are not. They're variant rules like any other in this edition and I always adjust my expectations when it comes to variant rules to avoid such dissatisfaction.
 

Interesting. What happens if you do ek 4 paladin 5?

You’d be like you were a paladin 9 in terms of spell slots?
 

iserith said:
This also isn't an issue if you don't use the optional multiclassing rules.

Feats and multiclassing get treated by many as if they are a core part of the game. They are not. They're variant rules like any other in this edition and I always adjust my expectations when it comes to variant rules to avoid such dissatisfaction.
Click to expand...

Agreed but if multiclassin is really optional then there’s a variety of play styles and concepts the non-optional game doesn’t allow any close approximation for. That could be remedied with more classes but as it stands that isn’t happening and so milticlassing feels more important than it otherwise really needed to be.
 



My personal rule is simply to treat gains in spellcasting features for non-full casters just like the "+1 level in a spellcasting class" rule from 3e prestige classes.

For half casters, you bump up a level in spellcasting at 2,3,5,7,and every odd level afterwards. For third casters, you bump a level at 3,4,7,10,13,16, and 19.
 

Seems like an intended ekement not an accident or botch.

So its less a case of error as opposed to they chose a route you dont like.

Have not seen it as a problem in play. Have you?
 

Similar Threads

G
D&D General An interesting talk with AI (creating an EXP table)
Replies
5
Views
523
tetrasodium
tetrasodium
Whizbang Dustyboots
D&D 5E Seeking feedback on homebrew monsters
Replies
2
Views
697
Quickleaf
Quickleaf
S
D&D (2024) New DMG Encounter Building Math vs 2014
6 7 8 9 10
Replies
95
Views
13K
Selas
S
Zardnaar
D&D General B/X Vs Modern Ability Scores. ENworlds D&D Design Pt 1
2 3
Replies
24
Views
1K
Theory of Games
Theory of Games
Xeviat
D&D General Normal Distribution Ability Scores
8 9 10 11 12
Replies
112
Views
11K
jmartkdr2
jmartkdr2

Into the Woods

Remove ads

Top