What is the essence of D&D

[Campbell]

I am with Nagol. For any answer to be useful I think it should distinguish Dungeons and Dragons from any number of other fantasy games. Is there a commonality that exists where the various editions are all Dungeons and Dragons, but where RuneQuest, Legend of the Five Rings, Exalted, and Numenera are not also Dungeons and Dragons besides what they say on the tin?

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Imaro]

I am with Nagol. For any answer to be useful I think it should distinguish Dungeons and Dragons from any number of other fantasy games. Is there a commonality that exists where the various editions are all Dungeons and Dragons, but where RuneQuest, Legend of the Five Rings, Exalted, and Numenera are not also Dungeons and Dragons besides what they say on the tin?

With D&D being the first and influencing so many rpg's (as well as spawning a boatload of retro clones) I'd argue the only thing I can think of is the IP?? But even that has changed from edition to edition.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure haters have said things about 4E that are untrue. There was a lot of vitriol going around (and, apparently, still is). However, so far as I've seen on this thread, all of the allegedly untrue claims allegedly made by 4E haters exist only in the accounts of 4E defenders. This raises several questions most pressingly (a) Are 4E defenders really the best source on the beliefs of 4E critics? and (b) What's the point of bringing all this up now?

(And, not to beat around the bush, I strongly suspect the answers to be (a) Hell no and (b) Because refighting old battles on our terms is a lot easier and more fun than seeking understanding of our opponents.)

The answer is simply that we were accused of nonsense, so we defended ourselves. That is literally how this all started. Your judgmental garbage isn’t especially informative or constructive.

 

[Arnwolf666]

I really like what 13th age has done. But I would really like to see what someone could do rewriting 4E with completely different fluff and not making it sound like a technical manual for a video game. Change the language and redo the tags. Fix a couple bugs. Make it feel like literature instead of a tech manual.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Honestly? The most likely culprit is simply presentation. 4e powers look samey because they were formatted in a very specific way. So, yeah, it's easy to get the perception that they are all the same. 5e powers are written in natural language paragraphs, so, in order to actually know what the powers are, you actually have to read the paragraphs. And, since we're wired to read that way anyway, it flows naturally.

IOW, the perception is based on presentation, not actual fact.

This exactly, like I’ve been saying for pages.

The reality is that the perception of all powers being effectively the same is a false perception created by misguided presentation.

Pointing that out isn’t any kind of denial of people’s experiences. It’s just correcting a factually false statement.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Imaro]

I really like what 13th age has done. But I would really like to see what someone could do rewriting 4E with completely different fluff and not making it sound like a technical manual for a video game. Change the language and redo the tags. Fix a couple bugs. Make it feel like literature instead of a tech manual.

Have you looked at the Essentials books?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I really like what 13th age has done. But I would really like to see what someone could do rewriting 4E with completely different fluff and not making it sound like a technical manual for a video game. Change the language and redo the tags. Fix a couple bugs. Make it feel like literature instead of a tech manual.

Yep. Unformat the powers, rewrite them so each one is written out in prose like other dnd editions and other games, convert keywords into the things they are shorthand for where it can reasonably be done, and you’ve got the same game with a completely different look and feel.

I mean, I’ve never seen any 4e hater complain that the Battle Master Fighter’s maneuvers are “samey”.

 

[Imaro]

I mean, I’ve never seen any 4e hater complain that the Battle Master Fighter’s maneuvers are “samey”.

False equivalency there... no one claimed the 4e Wizard's powers are samey with the 4e Wizard's powers...