Is Pathfinder 2 Paizo's 4E?

[The-Magic-Sword]

I believe you are referring to attempts to salvage the official Talisman rules.

Houserules, that is.

-_- houserules huh?

Look along the bottom of the feature on that page at the "activate" line, the hollow diamond is the "free" action symbol.

 

[darjr]

Uh... I don’t see how that changes his description? You still have to remember to do it.

 

[The-Magic-Sword]

they mentioned something about firing from the hip on rulings and said it would fire off on their first attack, in reality, you can hold it for the most pivotal moment.

 

[CapnZapp]

-_- houserules huh?

Look along the bottom of the feature on that page at the "activate" line, the hollow diamond is the "free" action symbol.

Why are you again responding as if I believe it is not a free action?

I said you were responding to houserules, not an erroneous belief of how the offical rules work.

 

[The-Magic-Sword]

....you were complaining about a houserule nerfing talismans that you made up, in your post about how talismans aren't useful?

 

[Campbell]

Uh... I don’t see how that changes his description? You still have to remember to do it.

I think the intention behind Talismans and how they generally work is a good one. I think the individual effects could do with some buffs.

Basically the intent was to provide some Wizard style fun to players of martial characters. You prepare just the right effect and it helps to turn the tide.

I think if you do not want that sort of operational play just do not use them. I think they should have more of an impact, but the structural design is good.

 

[CapnZapp]

There's no way to say this diplomatically so I'll just say it: I think the structural design is horrible.

The game asks you to devote brain power to some of the tiniest, littlest, most circumstantial effects I have ever come across in any game.

I see no reason whatsoever why magic items must be so utterly mundane. The real question is why Talismans weren't designed to be worthwhile and powerful and attractive and fun.

After all, they could just have cost more if there was a concern over balance.

But Talismans as written? You could easily just ignore all of them and not even realize you missed out.

Because, oh boy, you aren't missing out!

Spending time to write down their names and what they do, and then select which one to affix, and remembering to use it at the exact time... For what? The tiniest shittiest pathetic little one-time bonus? With a real risk of frustration over not spotting the perfect time to use it, or finding out you affixed the wrong one and just waited in vain the whole fight, or simply by realizing you JUST missed your shot at getting good use out of the annoying little bonus there was!

No, I am personally offended by the very thought anyone is expected to bother with a single Talisman, at all.

To me the designer is giving me a giant F U sign. I hate the design with every fiber of my being.

Especially since there was no reason to create them in that way, and every reason to not create anything that whiffs of 4th edition! I truly am flabbergasted anyone at Paizo thought the implementation to be a good idea.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Why don't you tell us how you really feel, Cap?

 

[Rhianni32]

As a GM I would love for my players to ignore these tiniest shittiest items that don't deserve the brain power needed to write the name of the item on their character sheet.

There are two economies in the game that talismans fit into.

Long term multiple levels and dozens of battles:
Why would a PC use that level 14 consumable that you could sell it for 450 gold and get a lvl 8 permanent?
They can buy a +1 resilient armor when they should be at +2 greater resilient armor (2 "steps" behind).
Or they could buy a greater staff of fire. Yeah the players got rid of that back at 10th level when they upgraded to the lvl 10 staff of evocation.
They could buy a wand of smoldering fireballs with money and get a truly free fireball that doesnt take recharging... now your 14th level caster can get spend actions to cast 1d6 persistent damage attacks once per day.

Players will be drowning in magic items in PF2.
The 14th level character on average out of a party of 4 will have based on what was given out from page 509...
Permanent Items: 15, 13, 13, 11, 11, 11, 9, 9, 7, 7...
Consumables: 15, 13, 13, 13, 11, 11, 11, 9, 9, 9...
Gold on top of the above to go buy further permanent items: 7,043 not including the other permanent items above that they didn't want.

I'm not seeing the importance of getting that extra 450 gold / 8th lvl permanent item whose power level has been outdated for several levels. If anything I see the reverse happening. In the above scenario sell your outdated staff of fire to buy 4 Grim Trophies or 3 Murderer's Knots and you use them on elites and bosses.

Short Term single combat. You get 3 actions a round. You aren't going to be spending that on low level action items. You need to be as efficient as possible with them and that is what talismans improve upon. They arent intended to be powerful and worthwhile on their own. You might as well complain that non magic daggers aren't powerful.

Now a case could be made that the 31 DC at 14th level is too low. That's different though than a horrible system that offends you that others like it.

 

[GrahamWills]

So, I'm playing a rather difficult video game at the moment, and, for me, all the consumables you pick up I mostly ignore. Because they are small effect and honestly, I'm better practicing deflect + punish to get better at the basics rather than spend the mental effort deciding whether to use a Fistful of Ash on this boss.

But that's just me -- a boss I fight by practicing dodge and taking my time with, another player is blowing snap seeds and long sparks and using them. I don't really have a problem with other people caring about consumables when I usually don't. It's the same for me in role playing games. Talismans seem of minimal use to me, so I'm not excited to use them, but others will have fun getting that last possible bonus. It's not like once I decide not to bother with talismans I have to spend any more effort. I can just happily ignore them.