D&D 5E What are your biggest immersion breakers, rules wise?

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Charlaquin]

I hope that's not what he (iserith) meant.

Because that is ... the worst. No offense.*

Do you regularly go to bad movies and say, "It's not that the bad movie was bad, it's that I was bad for not properly explaining to myself how good the movie was."

I mean, why have standards at all?

PS- I really don't think you understood the whole idea behind the no prize.



*EDIT. I'm not trying to be too harsh, but this is saying, "Hey, that thing that doesn't work for you? Instead of changing it, or choosing a system that works better for you, how about you berate yourself not being able to more effectively lie to yourself? The problem isn't the rules, it's YOU."

I’m not saying berate yourself, I’m saying enjoy yourself. Rather than let the plot holes ruin the movie for you, fill them in. It might salvage the movie for you, or it might not, but either way you pushed yourself creatively, which is always good for creative people (which DMs are) to do.

 

[iserith]

Yeah, except that these vague platitudes seem to be meaningless.

But if your solution to issues of a suspension of disbelief when watching something is to "change yourself," then yes, we have a fundamental disagreement.

Most people would think that, as a general rule (and internal consistency is big part of this) when someone is creating fiction, part of that ability when it comes to good fiction is the ability to suspend disbelief for the audience.

...this has to be the most inane argument I've seen. I just realized that you really are suggesting that when someone produces something that isn't internally consistent (for example), the best course of action is to "change oneself."

I don't see why that's so unbelievable. If I'm the sort of person who nitpicks and is bothered by every little inconsistency or rule in a game that doesn't jive with how I think things should work, that's on me. I can change the rules. I can demand other people don't "metagame" or whatever. But I can also just choose not to be that person.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Your belief can’t cause something to be true, but it also can’t cause something not to be true. when a thing happens in the game, it is true in the fiction whether you believe it or not. If you refuse to come up with or accept any explanations of how it could be true, that’s on you.

If something non-sensical happens in the fiction, then I have every right (and obligation) to decry the fiction as non-sensical. By doing so, we can work to build a fiction that makes more sense. Making up by own explanation does nothing to actually fix anything.

Obviously the reason is that the writer made a mistake. And yet, it’s canon. It happened. Come up with an explanation, or be dissatisfied, the choice is yours. Personally, I don’t really enjoy being dissatisfied.

I'd rather be dissatisfied by the truth than believe a lie.

 

[Charlaquin]

If something non-sensical happens in the fiction, then I have every right (and obligation) to decry the fiction as non-sensical.

Of course you have that right. I never claimed otherwise. But it’s definitely not an obligation, and it’s also going to harm your ability to enjoy fiction.

By doing so, we can work to build a fiction that makes more sense. Making up by own explanation does nothing to actually fix anything.

Sure it does. If the explanation you come up with is plausible and satisfying to you, that fixes the problem of you being dissatisfied with something you found implausible. It doesn’t fix that problem for other people, but other people might or might not have that problem. If a lot of people do, they might share their explanations, and develop a collective consensus on what the best one is. Sometimes such fanon even ends up getting elevated to canon.

I'd rather be dissatisfied by the truth than believe a lie.

It’s fiction dude, the whole story is a lie.

 

[Charlaquin]

Do you ever watch other programs not set in space?

Yes. I’m not even that bug of a Star Wars fan, it’s just a random bit of trivia I happened to pick up.

But you realize that even restricted to programs in space, there is more than Star Wars, right? Do all these shows have these same devices?

Sure, if you find that answer satisfying. If not, come up with something else. Or don’t, I don’t really care, but I’m going to be over here enjoying movies instead of nitpicking them.

Do you even understand what suspension of disbelief means, and why this is an example used?

Yes.

Great. Do you know what else stimulates creativity? Making rules to make the game more enjoyable and immersive for the participants, instead of saying, "All the X-Wings have little PEW PEW PEW boxes, 'cuz I'm smart. Deal with it."

A different sort of creativity, but yeah, creating rules systems is a creative exercise for sure.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[iserith]

The personal is usually self-explanatory; people with a great amount of knowledge in one area often find it hard to overlook glaring issues; doctors might find it harder to overlook flaws in a bad TV show about doctors, for example, or, as @Sacrosanct noted, people with military experience have trouble with certain depictions of the military.

On the recommendation of others, I watched the first season of Narcos on Netflix since I have some connection to the area where the events of the show take place. Having lived there for some time, I noticed right away that, while the local slang was being used, the actors did not have the correct accent. While it struck me as being out of place, I did not permit this to overshadow what was an otherwise excellent program. I chose not to let it take me out of the story. I simply focused and ignored this inconsistency. Pablo Escobar was no less Pablo because the accent was wrong. I chose not to be the kind of person for whom the show would be ruined because of this issue. I chose instead to be the kind of person who sometimes notices these things, but doesn't let it interfere with being immersed in the story.

Saying, however, that if someone has a problem with immersion (or the later seasons of Heroes) that the reason problem is them is both dismissive and obnoxious in equal measure.

It's not dismissive at all. I recognize it as a real problem, one that I've had personally, but overcame. I also stated that there are a number of solutions and that I preferred one in particular because it is useful in more areas than just watching movies or playing D&D. I can't control the casting of Narcos. I can't control how a TV show writes its stories. But I can control myself. And so that's the best place to start in my view.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

If the explanation you come up with is plausible and satisfying to you, that fixes the problem of you being dissatisfied with something you found implausible.

You're still trying to pass the burden for bad writing from the writer to the audience. The problem isn't that my standards are too high. The problem is that the quality of the product is too low.

It doesn’t fix that problem for other people, but other people might or might not have that problem. If a lot of people do, they might share their explanations, and develop a collective consensus on what the best one is. Sometimes such fanon even ends up getting elevated to canon.

The inconsistency is there, regardless of whether anyone notices it. If we're going to pretend that this whole scenario is actually happening - if we're going to assume the central conceit of a role-playing game, that these events could actually take place in some hypothetical world - then the true explanation can't be influenced by our awareness of it. Saying that it's just fiction, and that none of it is real, is dodging the question.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*