D&D 5E Rogue Advice

[Ashrym]

I find that dead familiars lose their effectiveness. ;-)

Internet advice needs a grain of salt. Some people will talk about how great find familiar is on one hand while elsewhere we see complaints about how fragile beastmaster companions are on the other.

I prefer twf to land sneak attacks more. Seeing if the first attack hits before declaring the bonus action still allows for cunning actions because the offhand attack becomes unnecessary if the standard attack succeeds.

Well, so far there is a Wizard (me), a Rogue (my brother) and a Fighter. 5 players in the group.

Depending on the other two he might just want variant human with the healer feat and go thief. Cunning action is great and fast hands opens it up with options like the healer kit and caltrops.

Plenty of skill proficiencies, expertise, and reliable talent let rogues excel out of combat. Cunning action, uncanny dodge, and evasion makes them hard to pin down and resistant to damage. Great 5e class.

 

[FrogReaver]

Well, dead familiars mean attacks that didn’t hit any of the less disposable party members.

Not necessarily and even then your are talking potentially 1 attack out of the whole enemy teams worth of attacks.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I guess for me it's that dead familiars can't help.... or can they??? no rule against it.... hmmmm

Owls are good, and very small, which means it’s very easy to get total cover.

 

[FrogReaver]

Owls are good, and very small, which means it’s very easy to get total cover.

Not really possible when it has to be next to the enemy it's giving advantage against - at least temporarily

 

[aco175]

I like halflings for the thief. The re-roll 1s is ok, but the move through spaces of larger creatures is great. We play with flanking which is a whole bunch of other threads, but it comes in handy to get into rooms and behind bad guys.

Thee is also a typical trick of hiding behind the fighter and popping out to gain advantage since you were hidden. It is a bit cheap, but works like 2-weapon fighting since you get 2 chanced to hit with backstab.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Not really possible when it has to be next to the enemy it's giving advantage against - at least temporarily

It...flies...and can’t take Opportunity Attacks...

 

[FrogReaver]

It...flies...and can’t take Opportunity Attacks...

...Readied actions are a thing

 

[doctorbadwolf]

...Readied actions are a thing

Man, I would love it if I could spend a little gold and time every day to ensure that some enemy wastes their action on the Readied Action in order to try and hit a bird that might distract them a bit!

 

[Esker]

...Readied actions are a thing

Man, I would love it if I could spend a little gold and time every day to ensure that some enemy wastes their action on the Readied Action in order to try and hit a bird that might distract them a bit!

It's very difficult to debate the effectiveness of a familiar granting the rogue advantage in any kind of "objective" way, since it's going to vary so much from table to table and DM to DM how enemies handle it.

Personally, I have certainly had my familiar die, but never once (with several different DMs) by an enemy targeting it specifically. AoEs, yes; getting into trouble scouting, yes. Having an enemy spending an attack targeting it, no. Having an enemy ready an action to attack it (and therefore foregoing all of its attacks on its turn), no. Even if it did that, its lack of doing anything else on its turn would be suspicious enough that I probably wouldn't have my familiar approach it that round. And then it's readied its action for a trigger that never occurs. Which is a much better outcome than me getting advantage, really.

When it comes to dragons and spellcasters, etc. with big AoE effects, those can definitely be problematic, particularly if the enemy beats the familiar in initiative. If the familiar gets to take a turn, it can often help and then fly directly above the enemy, such that a fireball or the like that hits it will either hit no one else or hit the enemy along with the familiar and one or more PCs.

Not saying other players don't have different experiences, but I've found an owl familiar in particular to be a quite reliable source of advantage, either for me or for someone else in the party.

Take a level 5 swashbuckler with 18 DEX, either with dual shortswords, or a rapier and booming blade. Assuming advantage is available about half the time (a bit lower than my own experience, but hopefully a reasonable compromise). Suppose a 0.60 base chance to hit (0.84 with advantage).

TWF expected damage: (3.5 + 4 + 3.5) * 0.60 + 3 * 3.5 * 0.84 = 15.4

BB expected damage (50% advantage, 0% secondary damage):
(2 * 4.5 + 4 + 3 * 3.5) * (0.5 * 0.60 + 0.5 * 0.84) = 16.9

Now, granted, the swashbuckler using booming blade spent a feat for it, which the TWF swashbuckler can use for something else. If we assume they spend it on an ASI to DEX, they're up to

(3.5 + 5 + 3.5) * 0.65 + 3 * 3.5 * 0.8775 = 17.0

even with the booming blade user (and they have a better AC, initiative, and skills).

But if you assume you get secondary damage for booming blade, say, 25% of the time, then booming blade's expected DPR goes up to 18.5.

So, basically, it's close. Do what seems the most fun.

 

[FrogReaver]

Man, I would love it if I could spend a little gold and time every day to ensure that some enemy wastes their action on the Readied Action in order to try and hit a bird that might distract them a bit!

That's certainly the better tactic than giving the rogue free advantage every turn no? Potentially 1 attack (if it's not caught in an AOE) and no more advantage for you this fight.