D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook Reveal: "New Rogue"

"Even tricksier than it was before".

New Rogue video --


The last version of the rogue we saw as in the UA Playtest 6, last September. There's not many changes being announced here, the biggest being that the Soulknife gets to use Psychic Blades on opportunity attacks (so you don't need to have a knife as a backup weapon, and get into drawing/sheathing shenanigans), and that they now have the Vex property, and that Trip has apparently been withdrawn from the Cunning strike options.

OVERVIEW
  • "our main job with the rogue was not to mess it up" -- add new twists to already wonderful design.
  • Weapon mastery, such as short sword and dagger for TWF. Enough masteries to make a difference (i.e. 2).
  • Cunning Strike (at 5): gives trade SA [sneak attack] dice for other effects. (Has anyone ever felt they had too many SA dice?). Poison, Trip, Withdraw [NOTE: no mention of Disarm!], with more later. Knockout at level 14.
  • Steady Aim at 3, Reliable talent at 7 (as in PT6)
  • Thieves Cant gives additional language too.
  • Slippery Mind at 15 gives proficiency in Wisdom and Charisma (harder to banish)
SUBCLASSES

Assassin (earlier discussion here)
  • benefits from Steady Aim.
  • 2014 depended too much on surprise.
  • Assassinate: adv on initiative, extra damage if opponent hasn't acted yet.
  • NEW: You get disguise and poisoners kit with proficiency.
  • NEW: Roving aim at 9: speed not reduced to zero if we use Steady Aim. (so you can move after making an attack with steady aim, but (apparently) not before
  • Envenom Weapons, Death Strike (as in PT6).
Arcane Trickster
  • NEW: spellcasting has no school restrictions, can now use arcane focus. more options and variety of builds.
  • NEW versatile trickster at 13 lets you Trip two people (again, no mention of disarm.)
  • discussion emphasizes the silliness and hijinks.
Soulknife
  • "supernatural equivalent of the assassin"
  • NEW: soulknife can be used on opportunity attacks ("Thank you!")
  • NEW: soulknife has a mastery property (Vex -- next attack will have advantage)
Thief
  • Fast Hands can activate magic item as a bonus action (as in PT6)
  • Dex instead of Str for Jump and gives Climb speed. (JC claims "it technically gave you a climb speed before" -- I don't think this has ever been explicit).
  • Supreme Sneak and Use Magic Device as in PT6.

I'm a little surprised at the (apparent) loss of Disarm from the options for Cunning Strike. Is this just to keep Wizards a bit safer? It was such a great option, for recreating those cinematic moments that I want a rogue to be able to do.

EDIT: SOME MORE NEW THINGS, from this video.

Some General rules revealed:
  • New PHB has a sidebar for backwards compatibility and using abilities that haven’t been replaced/overwritten.
  • NEW: Classes have a (class-specific) starting amount of gold – so for rogues it’s 100gp, + 50gp from background.
  • In his build he takes Alert as background feat (not framed in terms of needing it to tie to Background). Possibly there is explicit permission to take any origin feat you want, and the one listed with backgrounds is exempli gratia.
  • NEW: Piercer feat in the PHB (from Tasha’s, and so likely also Crusher and Slasher)
  • Dazed condition from the playtest is gone.
More info for Rogues.
  • NEW: Expertise for Rogues no longer allowed to be applied to Thieves’ tools.
  • The Knock Out option at level 14 is awesome thematically, and he compares the idea of a rogue knocking someone out with a blackjack. Yes, that’s cool, and (for me) is the reason there should be finesse weapons that don’t do the stabby stabby
Info on his own build:
  • If you know his builds, Colby is permissive with his exploits, allowing a lot of things that aren’t strictly RAW. In that light, it seems to me significant that he sees, even when using Variant Human in backwards compatibility, that he would only allow himself an Origin Feat (i.e. no half-feat) at level 1. That is only one person’s interpretation, but since he is generally VERY permissive in terms of his interpretations of rules, that (to me) speaks volumes.
  • First Feat choice is Sentinel, lets him take an opportunity attack (to get SA again).
  • Strategy: Most rounds attack with Vex, then Nick (so Bonus Action is free). In round 1, Nick first, bonus for Vex, which then would apply for any opportunity attack.
  • He starts wielding Short sword and Scimitar, but later takes the Piercer feat, with which he’d want to swap the scimitar for a dagger (don’t think this was mentioned)
 

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Cunning Strike (at 5): gives trade SA [sneak attack] dice for other effects. (Has anyone ever felt they had too many SA dice?).
Is that really a relevant question? The only question is whether the cunning strike benefits are worth a d6 damage or not.
JC claims "it technically gave you a climb speed before" -- I don't think this has ever been explicit).
That was the point of his statement. Like literally the exact point.
 


Is that really a relevant question? The only question is whether the cunning strike benefits are worth a d6 damage or not.

That was the point of his statement. Like literally the exact point.
Well in the interview, they talked about players who apparently feel intimidated by rolling too many dice.

I've been playing since the 80's. No player has ever said "man, I wish I had less dice to roll" in my presence. I'm not saying dice-hating players don't exist (Amber Diceless Roleplaying exists, after all), but it's hard to believe there's a lot of them out there.
 


The concept of trading sneak attack dice for other effects isn't exactly a new one either. There were Feats that let you do this in 3.5, like:
2024-06-25_130757.jpg

As well as Rogue Talents in Pathfinder 1e, such as Armor Piercer:

Armor Piercer* (Ex)

Benefit(s): When you hit with an attack that deals sneak attack damage, you can forgo one or more sneak attack dice to reduce the target’s natural armor bonus by that amount (minimum natural armor bonus of +0) until the end of your next turn. A creature cannot be affected by this ability again for 1 minute.

I don't know how popular these were- I never saw them taken, but maybe that has more to do with the opportunity cost of a Feat or Talent, where the NuRogue gets this ability automatically.

Personally, it's nice to have the option, but I don't expect to see people willing to trade damage for minor tactical benefits fairly often. As I hear all too often in my area "dead is the best status effect".
 

Good thing you are moving the goalpost.
We spoke about moving the hand while the rogue approaches the target.
Who's moving the goalposts now? Kindly point to where we limited it in this fashion.

Mage Hand is a short duration gimmick that is not subtle to cast (making its duration a very limiting factor for when it can be up), and in combat it either limits your mobility or eats your bonus action or both because even if you're moving it you're not Dashing then. It is in no way integral to how the subclass plays - any of the other cantrips find more use.
 

Yup. And it's pretty lame to embed a 2014 rules clarification in a video promoting the 2024 PHB. That's my point.
No, it’s not. Your entire presentation of what they’re doin in the video is nonsensical.

They clarify in most of these videos what is being changed. That’s literally all they did here.
 

Who's moving the goalposts now? Kindly point to where we limited it in this fashion.
Ok. So we spoke about different situations. I took the statement that there is a (small) window where you cast it before moving into combat as a (still) out of combat situation. This was your post I responded to:
It has Verbal components, so no casting it stealthily. It takes an action to cast, so no casting it in combat. It has 1 minute duration, so it'd take a very limited window where you have summoned it out of hearing distance but ended up in combat. If at any time you are more than 30ft away from it, it just vanishes.

Mage Hand is a short duration gimmick that is not subtle to cast (making its duration a very limiting factor for when it can be up), and in combat it either limits your mobility or eats your bonus action or both because even if you're moving it you're not Dashing then.
If that is a problem in your games, ok.
It is in no way integral to how the subclass plays - any of the other cantrips find more use.
There are other things than combats. Having played an arcane trickster (multiclass) up to level 9, I can say that the mage hand was very useful in many situations. The fact that it is invisible was relevant often enough. If you can´t find situations where you can use it in a meaningful way, then don´t use it. I am glad we still have it. I would not mind it being buffed a bit by removing v and make the casting time a bonus action or increasing the duration. At least for the trickster.
 
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