Pathfinder 2E Creating interesting solo monster encounters

[CapnZapp]

Yes, a Solo and a high level monster are two completely different things. If Paizo offers the latter as the only approach to the former, that is a pretty poor offering.

Not compared to d20 and Pathfinder 1, since they offered just as little support. And not compared to 4E (even though it offered specific and robust support for solos).

But compared to 5E, the game everyone uses as a baseline nowadays.

Bottom line is, if Paizo thought they could offer up a brand new game in 2019 without making concessions to what 5E does well, they have another think coming...

 

[CapnZapp]

White room example of 4 10th level PCs vs balor (CR 19)

My takeaway from your example: give that party just one out of three things: an extra level, feats, or magic items, and they will trounce the balor. Give them all three (which is the way loads and loads of gamers play and have played D&D) and the Balor becomes a joke.

Despite a nine (okay, eight) level difference!

Not only is this indicative of how pathetic the 5E Monster Manual's high-level support really is, it really highlights the difference to Pathfinder 2.

Obviously the math is changed so the party won't stand a chance against a monster nine levels higher, but more importantly Pathfinder gives its Bestiary denizens the tools they need to actually challenge the players and their characters.

Sure not even in 5E will a high-level fight play out as in a white room experiment, but it isn't that far off. Far too many level 10-15 monsters are in essence glorified bruisers with no capacity to overcome the hurdles competent PCs set up for them. The Monster Manual comes across as written by a designer that understands the base game (such as "a level 10 fighter has 23 DPR") but wasn't then informed about the absolutely enormous wealth of special tricks the PHB's various chapters hand out like candy to PCs!

In Pathfinder 2, however, the monsters have their pockets full of exactly the same "unfair" tricks that 5E only gives player characters (and then some!!) and just maybe a very select few monsters (and demons aren't among them).

In it in this context "Pathfinder 2 offers robust support for monsters in general but high-level encounters in particular" that the apparent complete lack of Solo support stands out as jarring.

 

[JFranklin3000]

Well, we don't have monster design guidelines yet, so what is RAW in this case. Are just saying using the bestiary monsters without modification?

If that is the case, then yes I don't think PF2e does solos very well

Just an FYI we do have the monster design rules now.

paizo.com - Community / Paizo Blog

 

[dave2008]

Just an FYI we do have the monster design rules now.

paizo.com - Community / Paizo Blog

I've already downloaded them - thank you for think about me though!

 

[JFranklin3000]

I've already downloaded them - thank you for think about me though!

k, just wanted to make sure. They are awfully useful.

 

[dave2008]

k, just wanted to make sure. They are awfully useful.

Useful, yes - but I wouldn't say awfully useful. I was expecting something a bit more crunchy, as I have expressed in previous posts in this thread.

 

[CapnZapp]

Actually, pages and pages of tables is crunchy enough.

The problem is that there's very little prescription (direction, precision).

 

[dave2008]

Actually, pages and pages of tables is crunchy enough.

The problem is that there's very little prescription (direction, precision).

Yes, that is what I meant by crunch. In fact, I think they could have fewer tables with more prescription and get the job done better.

 

[Eltab]

There is a better-described model for this in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes:

Off-turn Action
Attack, My Pretties! The lizard tamer utters a command to his beasts. As a free action, each of them may make a basic attack against an adjacent target (preferring the target they attacked on their last turn).