D&D 5E Playing without Subclasses

[Ruin Explorer]

Agreed. ASI's are pretty integral to 5e encounter design, though not 100%. Just makes things more challenging when you hit 10% less often and deal 10% less damage, etc.

Yeah and I haven't analyzed it closely but my instinct is that the sum total reduction to capability will be more than the 10% looking at individual numbers in isolation would indicate.

Like, if you hit 10% less often and do 10% less damage that's more like 81% effectiveness than the 90% people might guess. Failing more saves, taking more damage as a percentage of total health, healing for less and possibly having less AC could really tank survivability too.

 

[aco175]

You would be able to bring back all the cool/powerful 2e/3e magic items to balance all this out though.

 

[Salthorae]

You would be able to bring back all the cool/powerful 2e/3e magic items to balance all this out though.

You can just hand out 5e magic items that rarely see play too like legendary weapons/armor/staffs etc to balance this out... a bit sure. No need to delve back into the morass of 2e/3e magic items.

A 16 Str Fighter with a +3 Longsword is just as effective as a 20 Str Fighter with a +1 sword.

Depends on if you want to keep the heroes the power source (4e/5e) or their items as the source of their power (2e/3e)

 

[Undrave]

On the upside it will mess with most classes equally!

Except that the Fighter has class features that are literally "Get more ASI", which you are supposed to spend on their REAL class features that they hid in the Feat section...The Rogue also gets an extra one I believe.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Except that the Fighter has class features that are literally "Get more ASI", which you are supposed to spend on their REAL class features that they hid in the Feat section...The Rogue also gets an extra one I believe.

I was assuming they'd get the "extra" ones, but yeah.

 

[Undrave]

I was assuming they'd get the "extra" ones, but yeah.

You could always replace it by a choice of a few specific feat. There's a few that are basically "advanced fighting styles": Great Weapon Master, Heavy Armor Master, Shield Master, Polearm Master, Sharpshooter, Dual Wielder, Sentinel, Defensive Duelist... just make it so your choice of fighting style decides for you I guess?

 

[BookBarbarian]

Most importantly, different classes use their subclasses to different degrees.

Removing a subclass from class X is different from removing it from Y.

Simply using a fixed subclass will get you most of what you want.

Very much this. I can play a fighter without a subclass pretty easily. Wizard too.

But a Ranger without a subclass? ForgetAboutIt.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Are there rules to skip the subclasses?

Rather than skip sub-classes, just pick one for each class. For instance, Champion Fighter will feel the most like an old-school fighter. Life Cleric, Thief Rogue, etc...

 

[Ashrym]

I want to use 5E to emulate 2E/proto 3E as close as possbile.
Are there any builts for this?
Are there rules to skip the subclasses?
Thank you guys!

The 5e SRD also presents a single "iconic" version of each class with only one subclass for each class. It does the same for races.

Barbarian - Berserker
Bard - Lore
Cleric - Life
Druid - Land
Fighter - Champion
Monk - Open Hand
Paladin - Devotion
Ranger - Hunter
Rogue - Thief
Sorcerer - Draconic
Warlock - Fiend
Wizard - Evocation

You can't remove subclasses entirely. Certain classes completely fall apart (Ranger, Warlock) and most would lose major mechanics.

This is what I was going to say. Simply applying a single subclass as the standard class abilities that most matches the flavor desired gets rid of subclasses. It doesn't have to follow the SRD but the idea is the same.

 

[NotAYakk]

If you want "D&D but simpler" try https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/UA_Sidekicks.pdf -- Sidekicks are Expert, Warrior and Spellcaster.

Warrior is a slightly stripped down Champion fighter.
Expert is a combat-weakened Rogue.
Spellcaster is a stripped down bard/cleric/druid/wizard.

Expert is clearly the weakest in combat. And there is no "Paladin".