D&D General The limiting drawback of character customization

[Ruin Explorer]

Regardless, tons of magic daggers start showing up in treasure, but no magic glaive ever shows up.

Tie a stick to the biggest, cuttiest (that's a word right?) of the daggers and git 'er dun.

 

[TwoSix]

Not everybody customizing is an optimizer though. Maybe I just envision my character with a glaive and want to eventually have a magic one? There is a point in the game where you really need to have a magic weapon just to keep up (because monsters start being immune to non-magic weapons). Call me entitled, but I would expect the DM to work with me to facilitate the kind of character I want to play -of course table variation and stuff-. I really would talk to the DM if I had been playing with a glaive from day one and we hadn't found a magic one yet we were drowning on +1 swords that nobody in the party wanted to use. Ok, hyperbole, but still...

Sure, but as you said, table variation. Someone who wants to give out purely random treasure is arguing that the game needs to prioritize the campaign verisimilitude over the individual character. Arguing that prioritizing character concept (by giving out a tailored magic item) is more important is fundamentally a difference in play style.

Obviously, it's quite possible to meet in the middle (maybe a small side quest to get a magical glaive crafted by sacrificing some other magic item), but there's a deep distinction between those viewpoints that requires a compromise to be reached.

The tricky part is recognizing when a player is building towards concept (I like glaives!) versus when a player is building towards power (I want to use a glaive because Polearm Master is a really strong feat!), and then the power player argues that their power build is actually simply their "character vision", and deserves the same leeway that you might give to a pure concept builder in terms of special campaign tweaks.

 

[Lanefan]

On the other hand, imagine I have a character that is defined as a glaive user from day 1. It is part of my character's story and a very important part of the identity. I likely went out of the way to gain proficiency with it. I also likely multiclassed or something in order to get the combat style that goes with it. Then we reach a level in which we need to start having magic weapons or in which every standard weapon user already has two attacks and I need a magic version of my weapon to keep contributing. Regardless, tons of magic daggers start showing up in treasure, but no magic glaive ever shows up. (This might sound contribbed, but remember, I hate pew-pew and find blasting extremely boring). At this point I need a magic glaive to at least keep contributing somewhat, that, or throw away an important part of my character and start dualwielding daggers in order to keep up.

Or, talk to your friendly party spellcaster and ask said person to keep some variant of "Magic Weapon" or "Bladethirst" (or whatever equivalent the game has) prepared, to be cast on those occasions when you really do need your glaive to be enchanted e.g. you're fighting something that needs magic to hit. The rest of the time, just rock on as you always have.

Meanwhile, hopefully you've already put some of your accumulated treasure toward commissioning an enchanted glaive to be custom-built for you by the local artificers...

Changing my character concept for a holy avenger? likely and very fun. Doing the same out of desperation for a pair of +1 daggers? There's no fun in it.

Agreed. But think outside the box, and all is never lost.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Every time you create an ability for a specific class or a specific feat, you are limiting the ability of others to try and do that same kind of thing without having taken that ability or feat.

So before a player could say "I try to mimic the speech of that guard we met earlier to this other guard" and a DM might say, "OK make a Charisma (Deception) check against his Wisdom (Insight) check to see if he can tell it's a fake" However, once you make the Actor feat, which has that exact language as an aspect of the feat, a DM is far less likely to allow you to try that or at least try it in that way. Because what was the point of spending a highly limited resource like a feat slot to get that ability if anyone could just try it without the feat in the same way?

And this applies to most "customization" options in the game. The more "options" provided to "customize" characters, the less free choice people have to try something on the fly which isn't an option they chose.

Which is why people who play OD&D say it's the game with the most ability to freely play. It lacks the restraints that come with customization options in a massive tome of rules, which has the unintended consequence of limiting those without those options.

I know this behavior isn’t uncommon, but it absolutely boggles my mind.

Anyone can try to trip someone in a fight. The Battlemaster just has a feature that makes them better at it. Same with the skill feats. Some of them were things a lot of people already allowed, but just as many were definite upgrades from what any DM I’ve ever seen would consider allowing without magic or some sort of special feature.

 

[Garthanos]

And this applies to most "customization" options in the game. The more "options" provided to "customize" characters, the less free choice people have to try something on the fly which isn't an option they chose.

Which is why in the Martial Practices redesign I am including without the practice enumerations and the price of said practices is a fungible. (way less limited than feats)

 

[Garthanos]

In my games there are no long swords. For renaissance setting tech level You get great swords, bastard swords (=long swords), arming swords, Rapier, Katzbalger (short swords), daggers (That's the straight blades), Kriegsmesser (two handed Messer), Langes Messer (one handed Messer), Scimitar, Knife that's the single edged curved ones.

And elves get proficiency in Rapier short sword eventually but never in Longswords.

Long sword stat (= 1d8 /1d10versatile) are the stats I use for bastard sword.

Long sword correct name = Great sword

Long sword mental image (The slender blade things fitting for elves) = rapier

thumbs up for proper naming ...

 

[Garthanos]

This has some reasons e.g. to provide a character with a useful magic item which would make this character well rounded, but another one would break balance if he got it.

I made a magic ring that would only work for someone with a weak such and such I cannot even remember what it was exactly sheesh it was early 90s because 2 out of 3 player characters were too friggan awesome and the one needed something big. The item was made by a contrarian mad god and this was back in the Stormbringer game so there was no lacking of those.

 

[Garthanos]

I like heirloom magic items or rather items which grow with you...
or ones that absorb magic out of what they kill (Stormbringer style again).
or where this item is a +2 because it was wielded by a hero (inherent bonuses and you rub off on it)
I also like Fated Wielders where you are weapon Xs fated wielder and it is your fated weapon of course you find the special one just made for you.
I have had players that wanted to design their own weapons too (so a game with flexible proficiencies where I could declare a bonus for one you designed yourself is fun too) .
I like magic items that will transform to fit the wielder like a one ring that changes size.
I like magics that allow enchantments to be transferred from one magic item to another.

Making "magic" and magic items inflexible out of some simulationist urge (what are you simulating science?) doesn't appeal at all.

And of course character retraining is also on the table and i will sometimes allow pretty dramatic shifts (rebuilds) during downtime even more than the game system normally allows.

 

[Yaarel]

I like heirloom magic items or rather items which grow with you...
or ones that absorb magic out of what they kill (Stormbringer style again).
or where this item is a +2 because it was wielded by a hero (inherent bonuses and you rub off on it)
I also like Fated Wielders where you are weapon Xs fated wielder and it is your fated weapon of course you find the special one just made for you.
I have had players that wanted to design their own weapons too (so a game with flexible proficiencies where I could declare a bonus for one you designed yourself is fun too) .
I like magic items that will transform to fit the wielder like a one ring that changes size.
I like magics that allow enchantments to be transferred from one magic item to another.

Making "magic" and magic items inflexible out of some simulationist urge (what are you simulating science?) doesn't appeal at all.

And of course character retraining is also on the table and i will sometimes allow pretty dramatic shifts (rebuilds) during downtime even more than the game system normally allows.

In my settings, all magic items are ultimately psionic magic items. The creator of an item imbues it with ones own mental force, and may do so intentionally or unintentionally.

The item is an extension of the mind of its creator, and inherently furthers the purpose − ideals and goals − of its creator. A particularly sentient item might also exhibit the personality quirks, flaws, and bonds of the creator.

To bond with a magic item, means to be in tune with the mind of its creator. If the item is cooperating, then the new user can further imbue it with ones own mental force, becoming a community of minds working toward its founding purpose.

In this way, a magic item can gain more power as its current user advances in levels. The influence of the new user can even modify the item to some degree.


An example of a magic item, is an heirloom sword that has been passed down thru previous generations, and now exhibits the protective will of ones ancestors.

 

[S'mon]

I don't tailor 'random loot drops' to what a player wants; but PCs are free to go out and seek to acquire an item they want. I definitely find an un-tailored approach more interesting. Obviously some editions do have balance concerns around magic items too, though.