D&D General How do you do horror when running D&D?

[Wiseblood]

Guys.

I don't need tips on running horror. I know how to DM it.

My problem is that the rules get in my way. I don't want the players thinking about hit points and attack bonuses.

In that case ignore everything after 1)

 

[Wiseblood]

What if The players did not have the problematic information? HP, ATtack bonus and so on?

 

[hawkeyefan]

Guys.

I don't need tips on running horror. I know how to DM it.

My problem is that the rules get in my way. I don't want the players thinking about hit points and attack bonuses.

Most of my advice was about that. Unless you’re going to seriously nerf the PCs, then their numbers are their numbers. So you have to put them in situations where their numbers don’t matter. Or at least, theyseem like they don’t matter.

That means they have to be in situations where they can’t win. Not all the time, but often enough so that they start to look at all combat encounters that way.

Without modifying rules like HP or rest mechanics, or without adding a nee element like Insanity or Horror, then that’s the only thing you can do.

You have to make the super heroes think they’re average joes.

 

[robus]

Guys.

I don't need tips on running horror. I know how to DM it.

My problem is that the rules get in my way. I don't want the players thinking about hit points and attack bonuses.

The rules simply help you resolve uncertainty, so I’m not sure how they get in your way? Apart from rolling initiative that is, as the AngryGM notes, nothing kills tension like rolling initiative Get that done at the end of the previous encounter/start of the session, then your narration can smoothly enter combat situations.

The section on Dread seems particularly apropos to running a successful campaign.

Spoiler: Death House Spoiler

For example if I ever run Death House I would replace the pathetic shambling mound in the dungeon with a flesh golem that has the spirit of the baby. As the PCs explore the house they will learn about the missing baby and get hints of the cult and their experiments and begin to worry about they might find in the secret dungeon...(Dread) When the flesh golem suddenly appears (Fright) it will call out for its “mama” (revulsion) and attack the PCs in a fit of depraved rage.

Also I’d recommend the Book of Beautiful Horrors PDF for some nicely horrible monsters.

 

[Nebulous]

The rules simply help you resolve uncertainty, so I’m not sure how they get in your way? Apart from rolling initiative that is, as the AngryGM notes, nothing kills tension like rolling initiative Get that done at the end of the previous encounter/start of the session, then your narration can smoothly enter combat situations.

I'm tinkering with ways to remove initiative, at least the book keeping parts, and flow straight into combat. I agree, it does bog down the whole flow of battle.

Also I’d recommend the Book of Beautiful Horrors PDF for some nicely horrible monsters.

Thanks! This is a cool book.

 

[Nebulous]

I. Do. Not. Like. D&D. I loathe it in my soul. However. It is hard to find players willing to play anything else, and it is hard to find a group who wants to play horror. Therefore I feel the options are D&D or not finding a group for months (or, as suggested in other threads I've started asking how to find players for non-D&D rpgs, "Go play D&D until you can convince the people you play with to play another system").

If I must play D&D, then I have to find a way to crowbar the game I want into D&D. Were this 3e I'd say "I want to use the d20 system to run horror where everyone is playing weak NPC", but I feel like if I say "d20" that will turn people off because it's "not D&D". If there are not fighters and clerics then it's too far off the reservation for players.

If I must use D&D because that's what everyone plays, I want to run a game using the D&D ruleset, not a D&D game with horror elements. How can I avoid all those rules and make them feel powerless in a game where they have tons of power?

Just keep them at 1st or 2nd level and have monsters way beyond their ability to fight so they will always want to run and hide. But it feels like the players are going to be expecting Dungeons & Dragons. Are you telling them ahead of time it is really a horror game with the familiar trappings of class and level and race?

 

[abirdcall]

I steer clear of Call of Cthulu becaus the system is built to do things that don't interest me: 1) Everyone will die or go insane, it's inevitable. 2) It's all about sanity and I find mental illness depressing, not scary. 3) It's very INVESTIGATION heavy. While I like the imagery and body horror, Lovecraftian stuff doesn't interest me.



Okay let me try to be clearer.

I. Do. Not. Like. D&D. I loathe it in my soul. However. It is hard to find players willing to play anything else, and it is hard to find a group who wants to play horror. Therefore I feel the options are D&D or not finding a group for months (or, as suggested in other threads I've started asking how to find players for non-D&D rpgs, "Go play D&D until you can convince the people you play with to play another system").

If I must play D&D, then I have to find a way to crowbar the game I want into D&D. Were this 3e I'd say "I want to use the d20 system to run horror where everyone is playing weak NPC", but I feel like if I say "d20" that will turn people off because it's "not D&D". If there are not fighters and clerics then it's too far off the reservation for players.

I don't want a lot of combat, honestly I don't want the players to fight much. That's sort of the point of this thread, because the standard mindset of a D&D player is "If it's there I can kill it" and generally PCs in D&D will kill it. From my experience, unless something is ridiculously higher level, the PCs can take it out. And the same things just don't work; even if Michael Myers is 10 levels higher and has an Assassinate ability, the players are not going to split up to be picked off one by one and a guy with a knife is simply not menacing to a group of five swordsmen, it's just a hack-a-thon.

Let me give you an example. The characters are in a room with a mirror. They can see in the mirror a monster among them, but only in the mirror. A D&D player says "How do I attack it, what's it's AC?" and a player in an RPG where they aren't a hero says "I NEED TO GET OUT OF HERE" because whatever that is they have no idea how to deal with it and they are certain whatever it does will ruin them. D&D gives a ton of tools to deal with it though, so the players think they can deal with it with the tools they have.

The focus is avoid, escape, survive not stand and fight. The kind of campaign I'm looking for is very much like the 1e days in that it emphasizes exploration and is dangerous. It'd be about encountering nightmarish sights, then running away from them or finding a story way to win, as opposed to attack and damage.

So let me reframe my core question:

If I must use D&D because that's what everyone plays, I will to run a game using the D&D ruleset, not a D&D game with horror elements. How can I avoid all those rules and make them feel powerless in a game where they have tons of power?

I don't play 5e as a horror game and our table try to avoid fighting as much as possible. This is because they know they can fail, and they don't want to fail.

I don't think you're going to have any luck in your quest because you hate the game.

It's that simple. Your starting point is that the game is bad and not what you want and so that's all you're going to find with it.

And finally, don't trick people. You're all supposed to be playing a game to have fun. People aren't there to entertain you. If they want to play D&D then you should be playing D&D. It doesn't matter that you are technically using the D&D rule set if you fundamentally change the actual game being played. If I signed up to play a D&D game and the game ended up being as you described I would feel lied to and would leave. D&D characters are powerful, they are greater than the common folk. If you don't want to play that you're just going to have to find players who do.

And if they don't want to play the games you want to play, well, that's just too bad.

 

[Coroc]

Use 1e/2e Ravenloft as a baseline for a start.

Tell the players upfront that while they might have seen an orc or two thy never encountered undead and that they should react like they would do IRL if they encounter one as opposed to a mundane threat, same goes for werewolves, demons etc.
Enforce this mechanically, Fear and Horror checks are done with Wis respectively Cha checks and can result in insanity. Enforce players to play out the fear or horror condition they are afflicted with. Use the 2e tables for better effect.

Reintroduce damage invulnerabilities (Silver required to hit for werewolves, devils and some undead, cold iron for demons) some more odd materials for other stuff. Make that or magic if you like but do not hand out loads of magic weapons, better do not hand out magic weapons at all in a horror campaign, especially not things like sunsword, werebane or mace of disruption.

Reintroduce sinkhole of evil condition a la 2e. Turn undead only possible with disadvantage in these areas. Better still, do not play with a cleric in the group.

Anyone playing a classic paladin is a beacon to a ravenloft domain lord. Such a character will be dead within shortest possible time. No way around that. Warn your players upfront, that some class selection might lead to a short adventuring career.
Play that one out once, if they do not listen.

Reintroduce evil denominator for certain acts and spells. Use the powers table of 2e ravenloft. While snake eyes or pointy ears might seem a minor problem at first, such deformations caused by a botched power check will absolutely bother local civilians.

Blood and Gore is a must for a horror campaign, victims especially of the main villain should be described accordingly, so do not play with players who cannot stand this.

Although 5e does not offer a lingering/permanent injury system you can also describe wounds suffered from horror mobs as being difficult to heal / think mummy rot etc

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Horror is simply when 1st level characters come up against a CR20 monster.

 

[Coroc]

Horror is simply when 1st level characters come up against a CR20 monster.

Wasn't that IMBA rather ?