D&D General How do you do horror when running D&D?

[Li Shenron]

I don't want a lot of combat, honestly I don't want the players to fight much. That's sort of the point of this thread, because the standard mindset of a D&D player is "If it's there I can kill it" and generally PCs in D&D will kill it. From my experience, unless something is ridiculously higher level, the PCs can take it out.

...

The focus is avoid, escape, survive not stand and fight. The kind of campaign I'm looking for is very much like the 1e days in that it emphasizes exploration and is dangerous. It'd be about encountering nightmarish sights, then running away from them or finding a story way to win, as opposed to attack and damage.

Sounds great to me.

So let me reframe my core question:

If I must use D&D because that's what everyone plays, I will to run a game using the D&D ruleset, not a D&D game with horror elements. How can I avoid all those rules and make them feel powerless in a game where they have tons of power?

Guys.

I don't need tips on running horror. I know how to DM it.

My problem is that the rules get in my way. I don't want the players thinking about hit points and attack bonuses.

The problem is that most D&D players expect the game to be A LOT about combat, and as you say combat is really not compatible with horror. In addition, players expect a good chance of their PC not to die, in fact they don't want to, even if they want to believe that their PC doesn't die because they are "good" at the game (ha!). Even more so, the most recent editions are clearly grounded in the idea that it should be fast to recover from combat, because players want... more combat and quickly.

I don't think there is a way to avoid combat rules unless you avoid combat, period.

Even then, you still have a potentially serious problem with many spells that work outside combat, for example if they can spoil mysteries/secrets, or if they can provide too easily an effective protection from harm. And of course, healing... any harm that simply translates to regular hit points is useless to deliver a sense of fear or horror, but there is anyway a spell for any other kind of harm, unless you change the rules yourself.

Eventually, this makes all fighting-oriented characters, magician characters and healing characters get in the way, because their player obviously will want to use their PCs abilities. What can you do? If you let them play the usual classes, they will assume they have to build a good Fighter or Cleric, only to found out later that the DM has introduced measures to make them ineffective. If you tell them not to play classes that get in the way, what characters are left really, Rogues?

The point is that D&D is designed for the characters to win, and by definition "horror" is based on the characters to lose. Yes I know, the trope is usually that ONE MAIN character or two "win" (i.e. survive) at the end of the story, but at a devastasting cost of usually losing everyone else they care about and their life as it was, meaning that the horror lingers on in the consequences... just not possible in a game designed like D&D.

The general ineffectiveness of the characters is essential in true horror stories. Even the survivor finds an unconventional, often serendipitous way to "win" at the end. Movies where the protagonist wades through hordes of monsters are parodies of horror, or simply action movies with increased gore imagery.

So I am afraid you are going to have to resort on more tips and tricks, and get a somewhat satisfactory result but not as good as in a book or a movie. Maybe you can find a way to deliver that feeling of powerlessness in a way around the game. First of all, if you forget about running an extended (or open-ended) horror campaign and just run a SHORT adventure, potentially even single-evening, then you CAN kill off the PCs with no regard. You can also consider multiple PCs per player, have a very large number of PCs (such as 4 players x 3 PCs = 12 total), and start killing them off to deliver the sense that the risk is real, without cutting off any single player from the game?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Wasn't that IMBA rather ?

Slight exaggeration, and there are different sorts of horror, but one of the easiest ones to do in D&D is simply to confront the PCs with threats that they can only run away from. Of course, the problem can be when the entire party decide they want to be the idiot who tries to stand and fight and gets ripped to shreads. It can make for a very short session.

Some other suggestions:

1) Don't bother with blood and gore. Driving an axe through someone's skull is an everyday occurrence in D&D-land, and it's usually the PCs doing the driving.

2) Hint, don't tell. The Players' imaginations can come up with things far more horrific than you can describe.

3) Cosmic horror is fun in D&D, but it aint scary. The players know the whole universe exists for their benefit. If Cthulhu thinks they are insignificant it is looking down the wrong end of the telescope.

4) Beware the Mists of Ravenloft. Whist being trapped can be scary, being trapped in a land of Universal B movie clichés is not. Bringing the horror into the PCs "real world" can be far more disturbing.

5) Unreality. Given that the DM's job is usually to try and make the world seem as real as possible, it's very easy to disrupt the players sense of what is real and what is not. Are the PCs killing the monsters or are they slaughtering innocent villagers?

6) Use the PCs' backstories against them. A major theme in Gothic tales is the present coming under attack from the past. Maybe one of the PCs is the monster, and they don't even know.

7) Don't suddenly transfer the story into the real 21st century world in the third act.

 

[Coroc]

Slight exaggeration, and there are different sorts of horror, but one of the easiest ones to do in D&D is simply to confront the PCs with threats that they can only run away from. Of course, the problem can be when the entire party decide they want to be the idiot who tries to stand and fight and gets ripped to shreads. It can make for a very short session.

Some other suggestions:

1) Don't bother with blood and gore. Driving an axe through someone's skull is an everyday occurrence in D&D-land, and it's usually the PCs doing the driving.

2) Hint, don't tell. The Players' imaginations can come up with things far more horrific than you can describe.

3) Cosmic horror is fun in D&D, but it aint scary. The players know the whole universe exists for their benefit. If Cthulhu thinks they are insignificant it is looking down the wrong end of the telescope.

4) Beware the Mists of Ravenloft. Whist being trapped can be scary, being trapped in a land of Universal B movie clichés is not. Bringing the horror into the PCs "real world" can be far more disturbing.

5) Unreality. Given that the DMs job is usually to try and make the world seem as real as possible, it's very easy to disrupt the players sense of what is real and what is not. Are the PCs killing the monsters or are they slaughtering innocent villagers?

6) Use the PCs' backstories against them. A major theme in Gothic tales is the present coming under attack from the past. Maybe one of the PCs is the monster, and they don't even know.

7) Don't suddenly transfer the story into the real 21st century world in the third act.

1. With B&G I meant the descriptive part. It is imho not he same if you talk about an axe in a skull but of grey matter splashes, broken teeth and puddles of blood and the still recognizable look of absolute fear in the skulls former owners face.

2. agree

3. agree but while the players might know anything the characters might know nothing at all especially about the universe and I demand that they act out according to their character knowledge not the players knowledge

4. disagree, you got to do it right, then especially converted 2e ravenloft adventures are among the best printed stuff that is around.

5. agree

6. agree, also use NPCs that have a relation to the PCs as backstory elements and incentives. Also, no werewolf adventure is perfect unless one of the PCs gets infected for real and tries to feast on his comrades.

7 Who does that ??? That's so underwhelming, it is like many of the fantasy movies in the last decades which all started in some real world condition, like hero is like you and me and gets somehow dragged into a fantasy realm. That was exciting the first time but it seems to be the standard now although it has a 100 years beard.
(Compare to GoT, to see how it should be done instead!)

 

[Paul Farquhar]

7 Who does that ???

"Spoilers"

 

[Paul Farquhar]

4. disagree, you got to do it right,

Yeah, but that aint easy, I find it hard to avoid falling into parody, or caring about people who aren't real anyway.

then especially converted 2e ravenloft adventures are among the best printed stuff that is around.

Sure, some good stuff written, but you don't actually need to set them in Ravenloft to use those adventures. A lot of them suffer from railroading.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

Put down Curse of Strahd, its not really going to help us here. Instead, go and source a copy of the Ravenloft Boxed Set, either Black or Red - the latter is more complete.

Take a good look at the changes that box set did to the 2nd edition rules, and then replicate it for 5th edition. There's some of this in the 5E DMG, but not enough to be honest, hence my suggestion you get the boxed set.

 

[Rechan]

I am not tricking people. I'm advertisign it as a horror campaign. I wouldn't advertise it as a typical game and then pull the rug out from under people.

 

[Nebulous]

I am not tricking people. I'm advertisign it as a horror campaign. I wouldn't advertise it as a typical game and then pull the rug out from under people.

So how are you handling it? People have given you dozens of suggestions. I'm sorry you have to run a game you hate so much.. That's going to make it not fun for you no matter what you choose to do.

 

[Rechan]

So how are you handling it? People have given you dozens of suggestions. I'm sorry you have to run a game you hate so much.. That's going to make it not fun for you no matter what you choose to do.

And I’m trying to reply but there is literally a page of comments for every post I’ve made. I made a lost last night before bed and now this n my commute, I can’t keep up here

And many of these suggestions either don’t get that I’m not looking for DM tips on mood, don’t understand that I’m arguing the rules are in my way, or don’t ageee at all. There is a post above asking how the rules are even doing that. So I have to explain myself Again.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The rules aren't really a problem, because the rules largely cover combat, and a straight fight is something that doesn't happen in a horror adventure.

The rules call an encounter of CR = level + 4 a "deadly" encounter. So long as you make every encounter CR level +5 or more you are good to go.

So your PCs have lots of special abilities? Systematically nullify each of them in turn.