Are Dice Pools Good, Actually?

[Bilharzia]

An extreme value is as likely as an average value in single die resolution. A larger die pool means when you fail you're likely to almost succeed or partially succeed, and total failure or extraordinary success are quite rare, which feels very natural.

I've no idea why this "simulates actions and results realistically". If you think, for example, getting a result between 01-50 is just as likely as getting a "00" result then I have to tell you that's not how probability works or percentile dice work. You don't roll to hit a number, you roll to (usually) get under a value which represents your skill.

"A larger die pool means when you fail you're likely to almost succeed"
This is a bit painful to read. I suppose that's great if you think reality is like this, or if you want the game to allow you to succeed all the time. I'm not sure why you would bother with making tests at all in that case.

This isn't how the Year Zero Engine works, as a dice pool system. A single success means you succeed, there's no partial success, there is success above the minimum which can give you bonuses, but no success means you have failed, and sometimes failed with bad consequences.

 

[schneeland]

In D&D, the normal range goes up to 18 before bonuses, so if you were to use a dice pool system in a game with a similar range for attributes, a d20 is necessary.

If you do roll under with the attribute value as the target number, yes. But you could also just pick [attribute value] d6, roll against a fixed target number and count the successes. It would still get a bit unwieldy, though.

 

[Ratskinner]

I’m not a fan of dice pools because (1) it slows down resolution time and (2) makes it hard to eyeball probabilities. it also requires you to carry around tons of dice. I understand the visceral appeal of rolling lots of dice, but it’s not for me.

Your #2 is one of the reasons I like them. I don't like the effort of hiding information (like AC) from the players (slows things down) and the inscrutability of dice pools helps add a sense of uncertainty.

 

[Beleriphon]

Your #2 is one of the reasons I like them. I don't like the effort of hiding information (like AC) from the players (slows things down) and the inscrutability of dice pools helps add a sense of uncertainty.

Probability with relatively small pools isn't that hard. 3d6 as an additive pool is likely to be 10 or 11, those are the most common results. So if you know you're likely to get a 10 or 11, but need a 14 or better then you better have something that adds at least +4 to that roll or get lucky.

 

[Ratskinner]

Probability with relatively small pools isn't that hard. 3d6 as an additive pool is likely to be 10 or 11, those are the most common results. So if you know you're likely to get a 10 or 11, but need a 14 or better then you better have something that adds at least +4 to that roll or get lucky.

Sure, although I'm not sure I call something like GURPS a dice pool. I guess it technically, is, though.

 

[Bilharzia]

Sure, although I'm not sure I call something like GURPS a dice pool. I guess it technically, is, though.

It's not. I thought the definition of a dice pool system was counting the number of "hits" and not adding up the numbers and comparing that to a target number - which is what GURPS does. From what I can see posters are mixing things up.

 

[aramis erak]

I think that dice pools with successes work best with custom dice that can have multiple successes, penalties, weird effect, etc (look at the new L5R RPG for an example).

Yup!

The advantage of counting rolled dice is in a system that uses exploding dice, where you always have a chance, no matter how small.

This part isn't true of L5R, tho'. It's actually true of FFG Genesys and Star Wars, as all the difficulties are in dice, and all dice except force have blank sides.

L5R, if one is Compromised, one only has a chance at Diff > Att if one is skilled, as the attribute dice have no explosive only faces, only explosive+stress, and compromized cannot keep dice with stress unless they only have dice with stress, then they can keep only one.

 

[aramis erak]

It's not. I thought the definition of a dice pool system was counting the number of "hits" and not adding up the numbers and comparing that to a target number - which is what GURPS does. From what I can see posters are mixing things up.

Actually, the definition used more generally industry wide is where the number of dice is dependent upon character ability scores.

Some, such as D6 System, are roll-and-total.
Some, such as Prime Directive 1E and LUG Trek are keep best die, with a method for explosive.
Some, such as Shadowrun and Vampire, are count successes.

ANd then, we have the "Roll and Keep" pools...
Roll x dice, keep y of them, then total those Y dice: L5R 1-4, Cortex Plus, Savage Worlds
Roll X dice, keep y of them, count the symbols: L5R 5e

Technically, Savage worlds is keep 1, and is at most roll 2d keep 1... but the dice rolled are 1d6 & 1d(skill).
Cortex plus is almost always roll 3-8 dice, of size by ability and inclusion if relevant, keep 2.

L5R 1, 3 & 4 is roll Stat+skill, keep stat. 2E is roll Skill keep stat. Both cases, total the kept, compare to opposed roll or TN as appropriate.


All of those use character skills and/or attributes to determine the number of dice to roll.



Symbollic Dice Pools include WEG's DC treatment ....
1 wild die, skill-1 other dice. Wild -1, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1+Exp; other: 0,0,1,1,1,1.
Really not much different than the roll and total approach, just reducing the numbers.
FFG WFRP3 - Way too convoluted for here, but multi-axis results and always a chance of success and of fail.
FFG Star Wars: much more streamlined with only 8 symbols, and 7 kinds of dice, and simpler talents as well.
FFG Genesys: different advancement, but otherwise, 99.9% same mechanics as Star Wars - the exact symbols changed, but the names and rates are the same as in SW.
FFG L5R - even more streamlined, 4 symbols, two dice types, fixed number difficulty, and sometimes a no-chance roll.

All of these are variations of dice pools. What dice you get is by abilities....

 

[prabe]

I wouldn't have described Savage Worlds as a dice pool, but it's plausible seeing that in this context. Thanks for the unpacking.

 

[Shiroiken]

This part isn't true of L5R, tho'. It's actually true of FFG Genesys and Star Wars, as all the difficulties are in dice, and all dice except force have blank sides.

L5R, if one is Compromised, one only has a chance at Diff > Att if one is skilled, as the attribute dice have no explosive only faces, only explosive+stress, and compromized cannot keep dice with stress unless they only have dice with stress, then they can keep only one.

The AEG system used an exploding d10 for L5R and it's sister system 7th Sea. Both the old and new systems are examples of dice pools that work, IMO.